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Thread: Separating kids from parents at the border

  1. #21
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    I would agree with separating kids from their parents on principle, but unfortunately the way it's being done may have long lasting detrimental effects on a lot of these kids. Alternatively, the government could put the kids with one parent in some kind of family detention center, or find arrangements for the kids with family that's already in the states or foster families until their case can be heard. We could also just speed up the deportation process so that the separation isn't for very long. But for very young children I think it's really unhealthy for them to be in a detention center alone.

    Also, do people in Mexico live in caves? How are they that unaware of what goes on at the border?

  2. #22
    know nothing pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    I can see how anyone who can afford to stay with their children right where they are would be an asshole for pulling them along a border where they can literally be kidnapped by law. Sure, I get that.

    But those kids weren't exactly sitting in a condo watching cartoons and eating cheerios when their mother decided to illegally pull them across a dangerous border. I mean, you can see it strictly from the point of view of a law being broken, but the reality is that many of those people are fleeing places with some of the world's highest murder rates, towns at the hands of drug lords, and precarious socio-economic and political situations which have been directly and indirectly created by US foreign policy (one example is Honduras, many Hondurans are seeking asylum - let's remember that Hillary literally brags about how the US supported a coup in that country).

    If you just see this as bad parenting, you're missing the big picture.

    Edit: And I don't always take the little guy's side, because I know that sometimes the little guy is a fucking moron. Case in point: Cubans fleeing Cuba. To leave a country where you are poor but can get by, and seek refugee status from the very country that's strangling yours with an embargo, is something I have no compassion or understanding for. What should be done with people of that moral caliber isn't even fit to post on the internet.
    I guess in some cases you have to decide for your kids whether they will be better off in a US govt detention facility or with their families at home. It sucks that in the past the government made a practice of not prosecuting criminals when they had kids with them, because that incentivized bringing the kids into a dangerous situation to be used as leverage. A lot of the people bringing kids into the country illegally are in fact bad parents for doing that. The ones who aren't are probably grateful that there is a US to go to, one where systems of laws are maintained to keep the place safe and orderly and not like the places they came from.

    So yeah, the people crying about how horrible it is that we enforce the law and keep kids somewhere they are safe are idiots and should shut the fuck up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    Doesn't make it right to treat them as dangerous criminals.
    They are in fact criminals and many are dangerous. We have every right to at least detain them until we can figure out how much of a risk they pose.

  3. #23
    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pensive_pilgrim View Post
    The ones who aren't are probably grateful that there is a US to go to, one where systems of laws are maintained to keep the place safe and orderly and not like the places they came from.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Heh. We've been here years now.

  4. #24
    know nothing pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Sure, the Flores agreement doesn't require that children be separated from families. It just says that they can't detain children with their families, so if they want to detain illegal immigrants they have to separate them from their children. What do you think happens when American citizens are arrested for their crimes and their kids have nobody else to care for them?

    Shit like this is why Snopes can no longer be trusted as an unbiased source, by the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    brilliant commentary as usual

  5. #25
    malarkey oxyjen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pensive_pilgrim View Post
    Sure, the Flores agreement doesn't require that children be separated from families. It just says that they can't detain children with their families, so if they want to detain illegal immigrants they have to separate them from their children. What do you think happens when American citizens are arrested for their crimes and their kids have nobody else to care for them?

    Shit like this is why Snopes can no longer be trusted as an unbiased source, by the way.



    brilliant commentary as usual
    Reno v Flores
    Under 8 U.S.C.S. 1252(a)(1), an alien detained pending a deportation hearing generally may, in the discretion of the United States Attorney General, be

    (1) continued in custody;
    (2) released under a bond containing such conditions as the Attorney General may prescribe; or
    (3) released on conditional parole.

  6. #26
    know nothing pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxyjen View Post
    Reno v Flores
    Under 8 U.S.C.S. 1252(a)(1), an alien detained pending a deportation hearing generally may, in the discretion of the United States Attorney General, be

    (1) continued in custody;
    (2) released under a bond containing such conditions as the Attorney General may prescribe; or
    (3) released on conditional parole.
    That is not relevant to the discussion of what to do with the children of said aliens.

    The remarkable history of the family separation crisis
    A 1997 court settlement agreed to by the US government in a case called Flores v. Reno, which remains in effect today, requires the government to release children from immigration detention without unnecessary delay to, in order of preference, parents, other adult relatives or licensed programs willing to accept custody. If children cannot be released, Flores requires the government to hold them in the "least restrictive" setting available. The 2008 Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act, signed by President George W. Bush, codified parts of the settlement into federal law.
    In 2015, a federal judge in California ruled that the Flores requirements apply not only to unaccompanied minors but also to children apprehended with their parents, meaning that all minors must be released from detention if possible. The judge also ordered the Department of Homeland Security to release parents detained along with their children. An appeals court in 2016 affirmed that Flores applied to all children but reversed the ruling that parents should be released as well.
    If you just want to argue that no illegal immigrants who bring kids ever should be detained, you're just making it so bringing a kid is a ticket into the country. I'm sure you can see the issue with that.

  7. #27
    malarkey oxyjen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pensive_pilgrim View Post
    That is not relevant to the discussion of what to do with the children of said aliens.

    The remarkable history of the family separation crisis


    If you just want to argue that no illegal immigrants who bring kids ever should be detained, you're just making it so bringing a kid is a ticket into the country. I'm sure you can see the issue with that.
    There are issues with that, but this current strategy is worse.

    Also it's not a 'ticket into the country.' It's a 'way to not be locked up until after your hearing.' We do need more immigration courts and judges so the hearings can move forward in an expedient manner. The ankle monitoring solution isn't bad. It would cost us far less than it would be to jail them for the time being. FREE HOUSING AND FOOD to all aliens who cross the border, I'm sure you can see the issue with that. /s

  8. #28
    Senior Member jyng1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pensive_pilgrim View Post
    So yeah, the people crying about how horrible it is that we enforce the law and keep kids somewhere they are safe are idiots and should shut the fuck up.
    It's wonderful those children are safe and being well looked after...

    47-year-old Bexar County Sheriff’s Department deputy Jose Nunez has been arrested on a felony charge involving sexual assault of a child, reports NBC News. Nunez is a detention deputy who threatened the child’s mother — an undocumented immigrant — with deportation if she told anyone about the abuse.

    Bexar County Sheriff Javier Salazar revealed that Nunez is being charged with “super aggravated sexual assault” — a charge applied when the victim is less than six years old. If convicted, he faces a minimum of 25 years in prison.

  9. #29
    wetback Space Invaders Champion Fitz's Avatar
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    It's fucking gnarly watching all of Bannon's rootless males justify concentration camps here.

    Gonna archive this shit for posterity.

  10. #30
    know nothing pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxyjen View Post
    There are issues with that, but this current strategy is worse.

    Also it's not a 'ticket into the country.' It's a 'way to not be locked up until after your hearing.' We do need more immigration courts and judges so the hearings can move forward in an expedient manner. The ankle monitoring solution isn't bad. It would cost us far less than it would be to jail them for the time being. FREE HOUSING AND FOOD to all aliens who cross the border, I'm sure you can see the issue with that. /s
    Oh, so you want more funding to deal with illegal immigration? Great, write your congressperson. In the meantime let's cut the bullshit pretending like Trump and Sessions are Hitler for actually enforcing the law, and let's especially stop spreading misinformation that everything was just fine before they started doing so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz View Post
    It's fucking gnarly watching all of Bannon's rootless males justify concentration camps here.

    Gonna archive this shit for posterity.
    What's really sad is that you apparently think this is on the level of "concentration camps" and the most you're willing to do about it is talk shit on the internet. What a useless pussy.

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