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Thread: Unscientific Things You Believe

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    know nothing pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    I think the illusion of being part of a meta-consciousness stems from not recognizing the many "silent" parts of our nervous system. Silent in the sense they do not speak in language as our inner narrator does. We do not understand or recognize our connection to ourselves and mistake it for connection to something outside ourself. This misconception is further facilitated by awareness of interdependence and observations about similarity. But thinking and doing similar things does not make me you or you me. Parts are neither the whole nor another part regardless of their necessity to the whole or their interdependence on other parts.
    There are aspects of consciousness that aren't just similar from one conscious being to the next, they are exactly the same. If a priori knowledge originates in the nervous system, we should expect to find it in many varieties just like we do other biological entities.

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    Meae Musae Servus Hephaestus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pensive_pilgrim View Post
    There are aspects of consciousness that aren't just similar from one conscious being to the next, they are exactly the same. If a priori knowledge originates in the nervous system, we should expect to find it in many varieties just like we do other biological entities.
    You assume we know what we're looking for. We don't.

    Two things can be identical without being the same thing or "connected" in any way. The same is true of things with identical parts.
    Most of time, when people ask why something terrible happened, they don't realize they are looking for someone to blame.

    --Meditations on Uncertainty Vol ξ(x)

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    Faster. Than. Ever. Sloth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    I think the illusion of being part of a meta-consciousness stems from not recognizing the many "silent" parts of our nervous system. Silent in the sense they do not speak in language as our inner narrator does. We do not understand or recognize our connection to ourselves and mistake it for connection to something outside ourself. This misconception is further facilitated by awareness of interdependence and observations about similarity. But thinking and doing similar things does not make me you or you me. Parts are neither the whole nor another part regardless of their necessity to the whole or their interdependence on other parts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    You assume we know what we're looking for. We don't.
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say, but this sounds contradictory.

    You can't assume it's a mistake, though I think a solid argument can be made that most people wildly misinterpret anything they might remotely sense a connection with, or choose to ignore it because they refuse to believe that's what could actually be happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say, but this sounds contradictory.
    I see no contradiction. People mistake murples for swarks. People don't know what swarks are.

    You can't assume it's a mistake, though I think a solid argument can be made that most people wildly misinterpret anything they might remotely sense a connection with, or choose to ignore it because they refuse to believe that's what could actually be happening.
    Why not? If I am in error it is the same sort of error that I'm saying others are making, so why do they get to assume I'm wrong but I don't get to assume they are?
    Most of time, when people ask why something terrible happened, they don't realize they are looking for someone to blame.

    --Meditations on Uncertainty Vol ξ(x)

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    Faster. Than. Ever. Sloth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    I see no contradiction. People mistake murples for swarks. People don't know what swarks are.
    It looked like you were calling it a mistake but then saying "we don't know", so in a sense to call it a mistake is silly because "we don't know". That's how it read to me.

    Why not? If I am in error it is the same sort of error that I'm saying others are making, so why do they get to assume I'm wrong but I don't get to assume they are?
    This almost sort of sounds like a more articulate "well they started it!" argument

    I just think it's inaccurate to say that you know absolutely for sure that it is or isn't a mistake.

    Though to delve deeper into it, my personal opinion about it is that people are born with varying abilities to connect with "the greater" just like other abilities we have (some people are better at doing long division in their heads than others, some people are better at sensing a connection than others).

    Do I think there are a shit ton of people out there that are completely mistaken about sensing a greater connection? Yes.

    I don't think that negates the idea that some people are picking up on some things though.
    Last edited by Sloth; 07-11-2018 at 05:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
    I just think it's inaccurate to say that you know absolutely for sure that it is or isn't a mistake.
    You are correct. That would be inaccurate. It's a belief!

    Ironically, my belief is based on the same sorts of experiences I expect others had that caused them to think the opposite--but differing in a few important details, and possibly a knowledge base that is just enough different to cause me to process similar information differently.
    Most of time, when people ask why something terrible happened, they don't realize they are looking for someone to blame.

    --Meditations on Uncertainty Vol ξ(x)

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    Faster. Than. Ever. Sloth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Ironically, my belief is based on the same sorts of experiences I expect others had that caused them to think the opposite--but differing in a few important details, and possibly a knowledge base that is just enough different to cause me to process similar information differently.
    Vague statement is vague

    It could also be that you, like them, are likely in the majority of the population that (I believe) isn't able to pick up on a whole lot, and perhaps are correct in assessing your experience as not connecting to much.

    Also I think it's a really big assumption that everyone who believes they've connected to something greater are basing that belief on the exact set of experiences you're figuring they must be basing that on.

    I'd say individual life experiences are like fingerprints, but I think that's an understatement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
    It could also be that you, like them, are likely in the majority of the population that (I believe) isn't able to pick up on a whole lot, and perhaps are correct in assessing your experience as not connecting to much.
    You would be the first person to suggest I didn't have an antennae to the aether. Gratz?
    Most of time, when people ask why something terrible happened, they don't realize they are looking for someone to blame.

    --Meditations on Uncertainty Vol ξ(x)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    You would be the first person to suggest I didn't have an antennae to the aether. Gratz?
    I thought you were the one saying that you thought it was a "mistake" to assume people connect to a greater consciousness? Wasn't that what started this whole thing?!

    Anyway, I have no way of knowing what you're getting or not getting. I mean damn, I have no way of knowing that I'm not just some brain in a jar or a figment of another consciousness' imagination!

    See what you've done?

    Thanks Heph.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
    I thought you were the one saying that you thought it was a "mistake" to assume people connect to a greater consciousness? Wasn't that what started this whole thing?!

    Anyway, I have no way of knowing what you're getting or not getting. I mean damn, I have no way of knowing that I'm not just some brain in a jar or a figment of another consciousness' imagination!

    See what you've done?

    Thanks Heph.
    You're welcome?

    Consciousness is a loaded word. So is connection. I doubt either is happening externally, even when I speak of an antennae to the aether. I'm not talking about something either of those would describe. But I can totally understand people preferring to believe they were in contact with a meta-consciousness when a thought outside their internal narrative or what they had their attention on comes sliding into their head. It's way less frightening and stigmatizing than thinking it might be the result of other "selves" within you. Just approaching that idea springs Sybil and DID to mind. I get it. But split brain freakiness suggested to me that that needed re-thinking. The tested behaviors aside, the instant confabulation of speaking hemisphere shows why it would be hard to be aware of it.

    Then there's the enteric nervous system. It ain't just to keep the plumbing running. It houses most of our neurotransmitters, and science has demonstrated it is not a slave system to the brain in our head. They affect each other. This is why comfort food is a thing. It's also why our emotions are felt so much in our torso.

    That's at least three potential consciousnesses. I know no reason to believe the upper limit is small.
    Most of time, when people ask why something terrible happened, they don't realize they are looking for someone to blame.

    --Meditations on Uncertainty Vol ξ(x)

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