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Thread: How long do you spend in each sleep stage?

  1. #21
    Pull the strings! Architect's Avatar
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    I track with an Oura ring.

    Dr Walker is a sleep expert and has worked with the sleep tracking companies, he puts their accuracy at best 60%. Maybe in 10 years he thinks they'll get better (you need to be hooked to an EEG to really know for sure)


  2. #22
    non-canonical Light Leak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noip View Post
    I regularly sleep 5.5hrs per night. According to my fitbit, my peers get 7hrs per night. Sucks.
    I also wake frequently throughout the night which is likely why I get less REM (sort of the same patterns I'd imagine with people with sleep apnea), but my fitbit thinks it's due to caffeine intake and repeatedly reminds me to cut the caffeine before bedtime. I don't drink caffeine before bedtime.
    Yeah 5.5 hrs would suck. I've been getting around 6.5-7 hrs of sleep on weekdays, and 8-8.75 hrs on weekends. I don't know how a fitbit would know if it's caffeine. I'm really sensitive to caffeine so I can't really drink it past noon if I don't want to risk it messing with my sleep. My oura ring keeps telling me that my metabolism is affecting my sleep and suggesting I might be eating too close to bedtime. I guess it can tell based on my heart rate pattern at night. I do eat dinner pretty late though. I can't really change that because of my work schedule.

    Yes, your REM is unusually high...
    My REM has been lower lately. I don't know why. It usually ranges between 25-35% now. I'll have an occasional night where it will still jump up to 40%. My issue lately has been low deep sleep many nights.

    My ring doesn't give an overall average percentage. It does averages in times, although it does also give a percentage for the nightly averages.

    Averages for the past month:
    Total Sleep Time: 7 hrs. 20 mins
    Awake: 33mins
    Light: 3 hrs. 45 mins. (nightly averages between 40-60%)
    REM: 2 hrs. 12 mins. (nightly averages between 25-35%)
    Deep: 1 hrs. 22 mins ( nightly averages between 7-30%)

  3. #23
    schlemiel Faust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noip View Post
    My sleep is shit.
    Any guesses as to why? Are you the anxious / stressed out sort? If you spend too much time in bed your sleep maintenance can fall apart. For myself a lower ambient temperature and trials with the bedding stack has led to improvements.
    "All my heroes are dead" - John Zorn

    "It's not selfish if you hate yourself"

  4. #24
    Member noip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Leak View Post
    Yeah 5.5 hrs would suck. I've been getting around 6.5-7 hrs of sleep on weekdays, and 8-8.75 hrs on weekends. I don't know how a fitbit would know if it's caffeine. I'm really sensitive to caffeine so I can't really drink it past noon if I don't want to risk it messing with my sleep. My oura ring keeps telling me that my metabolism is affecting my sleep and suggesting I might be eating too close to bedtime. I guess it can tell based on my heart rate pattern at night. I do eat dinner pretty late though. I can't really change that because of my work schedule.



    My REM has been lower lately. I don't know why. It usually ranges between 25-35% now. I'll have an occasional night where it will still jump up to 40%. My issue lately has been low deep sleep many nights.

    My ring doesn't give an overall average percentage. It does averages in times, although it does also give a percentage for the nightly averages.

    Averages for the past month:
    Total Sleep Time: 7 hrs. 20 mins
    Awake: 33mins
    Light: 3 hrs. 45 mins. (nightly averages between 40-60%)
    REM: 2 hrs. 12 mins. (nightly averages between 25-35%)
    Deep: 1 hrs. 22 mins ( nightly averages between 7-30%)
    I'm not sure how it knows it's caffeine. I do use the "Diet" function of my fitbit app, which is where I input food/drink intakes for the day, so it could be correlating my daily morning coffee with lack of sleep ?

    I listened to a radio talk show recently in which a sleep expert was interviewed, and he'd stated that you'd want to stop caffeine intake by 2PM if you plan to sleep later by 10. It does look as though caffeine has a half-life of 6 hours. This means that even if one were to cut caffeine intake by 2PM, a least half of the consumed caffeine would still be affecting the body by 8*!
    I aim for a bedtime of 8PM so I can wake at 4AM. Considering that my fitbit is correct about my caffeine intake, it's likely that even if I were to cut caffeine intake by 12PM, I'm either experiencing too much caffeine in my system by 8PM and/or increased sensitivity to caffeine keeping me from falling asleep or sleeping well...

    I hear there's a diet where you can eat food more often but in smaller sized portions ? Alternatively, on days when I worked late in a previous job, I'd pack my own dinner and store it in the workplace's fridge to eat at 6PM while at work... Other days, I'd eat in the car to keep from eating too late at night.

    In reviewing others' sleep data, I've noticed they tend to get more REM and less deep sleep than I do. I've also noticed that my deep sleep percentages tend to increase following heavy workouts, which with a combo of factors leads to less REM for me. Possibly regular exercise to increase heart rate might increase deep sleep?
    I wonder how metabolism affects REM, if any?

    edit: I did come across this if you might be interested-- https://community.fitbit.com/t5/Slee...M/td-p/1969154


    Quote Originally Posted by Faust View Post
    Any guesses as to why? Are you the anxious / stressed out sort? If you spend too much time in bed your sleep maintenance can fall apart. For myself a lower ambient temperature and trials with the bedding stack has led to improvements.
    I think my sleep would be better if I got more REM. The lowest %age of REM I got was 3%. According to articles I've read about sleep, the brain usually tries to get deep sleep out of the way before targeting REM sleep at the end of the sleep period. This means that, because I keep waking frequently throughout the night, my brain doesn't really get a chance to switch into REM.

    My issues with sleeping mostly stems from staying asleep during the entire duration of the night. I think a major factor is an inconsistent sleep schedule. Another one is noise. I have nocturnal animals that are very active at night and sometimes they quarrel loudly with each another, and it wakes me up at nights. I'm starting to think caffeine sensitivity may indeed be an issue as well because in addition to the abovementioned, on days when I've gone without caffeine, my sleep has indeed improved. In sum, it's a combo of factors...
    Last edited by noip; 04-14-2019 at 07:42 PM.

  5. #25
    schlemiel Faust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noip
    a major factor is an inconsistent sleep schedule.
    Definitely. This is the first piece of advice you'll hear from sleep specialists. A solid morningrise time will help anchor your circadian rhythm and maximize sleep efficiency.

    Another one is noise. I have nocturnal animals that are very active at night and sometimes they quarrel loudly with each another, and it wakes me up at nights.
    You can opt for white noise and earplugs. I have a fan but also use a noise machine. They're like $20-40.

    I'm starting to think caffeine sensitivity may indeed be an issue as well because in addition to the abovementioned, on days when I've gone without caffeine, my sleep has indeed improved. In sum, it's a combo of factors...
    If you cut out caffeine by lunch you're probably fine. It binds to adenosine receptors. Adenosine levels build up over the course of the day, leading to that sleep pressure you feel at night along with melatonin.

    According to articles I've read about sleep, the brain usually tries to get deep sleep out of the way before targeting REM sleep at the end of the sleep period. This means that, because I keep waking frequently throughout the night, my brain doesn't really get a chance to switch into REM.
    Actually some research suggests that heading to bed too late, not just out of sync with your own circadian rhythm but the natural light patterns of the day, leads to REM-heavy sleep. It looks from your levels that your sleep is so light you aren't getting sufficient levels of either NREM SWS (deep) or REM.
    "All my heroes are dead" - John Zorn

    "It's not selfish if you hate yourself"

  6. #26
    Member noip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faust View Post
    Definitely. This is the first piece of advice you'll hear from sleep specialists. A solid morningrise time will help anchor your circadian rhythm and maximize sleep efficiency.

    You can opt for white noise and earplugs. I have a fan but also use a noise machine. They're like $20-40.
    I hesitate to write a response here because it's going to sound whiny, but here goes--
    I wear earplugs but I find them entirely uncomfortable to sleep in.
    I did try using white noise or some kind of music to overlay the nighttime noises, but it made me closer to deaf (I didn't realize how sensitive my hearing was) so I stopped but now there's this constant tinnitis.
    At this point I'm working on selling some of my pets. Maybe I can't handle 9 little critters, but hopefully I can handle 1.

    If you cut out caffeine by lunch you're probably fine. It binds to adenosine receptors. Adenosine levels build up over the course of the day, leading to that sleep pressure you feel at night along with melatonin.
    True. Some food for thought-I am quite certain I have HSP (Highly Sensitive Person). According to Dr. Aron, HSPs have more sensory neurons leading to increased sensitivity to external stimuli. According to her website, HSPs are known to be more susceptible to caffeine's effects as well and therefore are advised to switch entirely to decaf (however, for the purposes of decreasing anxiety).
    If that is indeed the case, and I have HSP, wouldn't it be possible that even what is considered "low" levels of caffeine in a normal person's body, in the HSP's body it might still stimulate caffeine's effects enough to affect sleep?

    Actually some research suggests that heading to bed too late, not just out of sync with your own circadian rhythm but the natural light patterns of the day, leads to REM-heavy sleep. It looks from your levels that your sleep is so light you aren't getting sufficient levels of either NREM SWS (deep) or REM.
    This is interesting as I wasn't aware. I agree with your observation, that is an accurate way to describe it. I tend not to worry about deep sleep as it falls within normal ranges (even though it is on the lower end).
    Last edited by noip; 04-14-2019 at 09:08 PM.

  7. #27
    non-canonical Light Leak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noip View Post
    I hear there's a diet where you can eat food more often but in smaller sized portions ? Alternatively, on days when I worked late in a previous job, I'd pack my own dinner and store it in the workplace's fridge to eat at 6PM while at work... Other days, I'd eat in the car to keep from eating too late at night.
    I've thought about packing dinner to bring to work, but I already pack a lunch to eat at work so I'm not really into the bringing dinner too thing. It's just a lot of stuff to pack, and the work kitchen is basically a closet with a fridge and microwave so it doesn't allow for a lot of meal options. Plus, it's just not very pleasant to eat at work. Also, I'm afraid it might give my employers the impression that I'm willing to work even later if I'm bringing dinner to work. They already pressure me.


    My issues with sleeping mostly stems from staying asleep during the entire duration of the night. I think a major factor is an inconsistent sleep schedule. Another one is noise. I have nocturnal animals that are very active at night and sometimes they quarrel loudly with each another, and it wakes me up at nights. I'm starting to think caffeine sensitivity may indeed be an issue as well because in addition to the abovementioned, on days when I've gone without caffeine, my sleep has indeed improved. In sum, it's a combo of factors...
    I tend to wake up a lot during the night too. I worked on sleep hygiene stuff (taking baths before bed to relax, going to bed at the same time every night) which helped a little but not as much as I would have liked. What seems to have helped the most for me is this sleep supplement. My sleep still isn't great, but it's better than it used to be since I added the supplement. I still wake up most nights but I can fall back asleep pretty quickly now. There's a video of how the supplement works and other supplements for other sleep problems. It talks about that particular supplement at about 4 1/2 mins in.

    Of course it would be better to be able to sleep well without needing any supplements, but I haven't gotten there yet.

  8. #28
    Member noip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Leak View Post
    Also, I'm afraid it might give my employers the impression that I'm willing to work even later if I'm bringing dinner to work. They already pressure me.
    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Light Leak View Post
    I tend to wake up a lot during the night too. I worked on sleep hygiene stuff (taking baths before bed to relax, going to bed at the same time every night) which helped a little but not as much as I would have liked. What seems to have helped the most for me is this sleep supplement. My sleep still isn't great, but it's better than it used to be since I added the supplement. I still wake up most nights but I can fall back asleep pretty quickly now. There's a video of how the supplement works and other supplements for other sleep problems. It talks about that particular supplement at about 4 1/2 mins in.

    Of course it would be better to be able to sleep well without needing any supplements, but I haven't gotten there yet.
    Same. Thanks for letting me know about the supplement. I considered ordering it but my sleep has since improved ever since switching to decaf. However, I've also changed to a more balanced diet, worked out a more consistent sleep schedule, and meditate and exercise regularly. Last couple of weeks I've averaged out 7hrs of sleep/night and REM is now surpassing deep percentage-wise. Not worried about it because deep sleep is still within average range.

  9. #29
    Member interprétation ironique's Avatar
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    not long enough in rem. *points to bulging eye bags*

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