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Thread: Unrest in Venezuela

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinny View Post
    The rich get richer, the poor get poorer. That's what the figures indicate.
    This is true of every form of government EVER invented or tried by man. TRUE capitalism is about the closest we have ever came to getting it "right". Just to be clear, Im not talking about the perverted form of capitalism we see today. Today government takes an active role in favoring one industry or even business over another with taxation, regulation, "loans", "bailouts", or whatever. If you're "too big to fail" for whatever reason, youre TOO BIG.

  2. #62
    schlemiel Faust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hubieg
    TRUE capitalism is about the closest we have ever came to getting it "right"
    There's no such thing. Just Capitalism, unchecked or otherwise. The irony here is that the reds employ the same no-true-Scotsman line about Communism never having been "true" Communism. Or that the dictators were necessary because Capitalists were hanging around elsewhere in the world. Capitalism is what Capitalism does.

    Some still reserve the hope we can save it from itself through democratic means, e.g. by taxing capital globally. The only reason inequality plummeted in the early 20th century (remember, the playing field at the turn of the century wasn't even by any stretch) is that two world wars destroyed most of the capital in the old world.

    Today government takes an active role in favoring one industry or even business over another with taxation, regulation, "loans", "bailouts", or whatever. If you're "too big to fail" for whatever reason, youre TOO BIG.
    Thank the big ever-consolidating corporates, an everlasting product of Capitalism.
    "All my heroes are dead" - John Zorn

    "It's not selfish if you hate yourself"

  3. #63
    Moderator Thoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faust View Post
    There's no such thing. Just Capitalism, unchecked or otherwise. The irony here is that the reds employ the same no-true-Scotsman line about Communism never having been "true" Communism.
    Capitalism: Wealthy corporate elite complaining that their failing economic policy is due to having to prop up the poor.

    Communism: Wealthy political elite complaining their failing economic policy is because someone else is making their people poor.

  4. #64
    I like big buts Sir Caveat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinny View Post



    Seems like the propaganda of a lefty hack. I just read the Economic Sanctions section of his report.

    Sanctioning financial transactions with 7 henchmen and denying them immigration rights to the US is not very plausible as the mechanism that created severe shortages of food and products in Venezuela.
    1. Antonio Jose ́Benavides Torres [Commander of the Central Integral Strategic Defense Region of the National Armed Forces, former Director of Operations for the National Guard; born June 13, 1961]
    2. Gustavo Enrique Gonza ́lez Lo ́pez [Director General of the National Intel-ligence Service and President of the Strategic Center of Security and Protec-tion of the Homeland; born November 2, 1960]
    3. Justo Jose ́Noguera Pietri [President of the Venezuelan Corporation of Guayana, former General Commander of the National Guard; born March 15, 1961]
    4. Katherine Nayarith Haringhton Padron [National Level Prosecutor of the 20th District Office of the Public Ministry; born December 5, 1971]
    5. Manuel Eduardo Pe ́rez Urdaneta [Director of the National Police; born May 26, 1962]
    6. Manuel Gregorio Bernal Martı ́nez [Chief of the 31st Armored Brigade of Caracas, former Director General of the National Intelligence Service; born July 12, 1965]
    7. Miguel Alcides Vivas Landino [Inspector General of the National Armed Forces, former Commander of the Andes Integral Strategic Defense Region of the National Armed Forces; born July 8, 1961]
    More plausible causes of Venezuela's economic ruin are:
    • government spending in excess of revenue and incurring large debt
    • devaluing the local currency by printing too much, causing hyperinflation
    • price ceilings, which are commonly know to produce shortages;
    • corruption, fueled by such rackets as currency artificial exchange rates available to insiders, such as the convicted Treasurer, and by bribes; and
    • expropriating formerly productive businesses and replacing the expertise of the former workers with people whose primary qualification for the job are being politically connected.
    You hide behind caveats and modifiers. - Lurker

  5. #65
    Senior Member Spartan26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    Nah, Venezuela's problem is that it's not socialist enough, and half-socialists always commit the sin of political naiveté.
    RDJ begs to differ...



    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Caveat View Post
    You're not ignorant because the information isn't available, you just "haven't been following it closely enough to know for sure."
    To be fair though, there's a ton of information but how do you discern what's a) accurate and b) had the most measurable effect? As an example, I worked at an investment bank in the late 90s into 2000, just into the beginning of the tech bubble bust. I was in a wholly separate dept from technology and venture but some of the things I learned (they learned) was that they, and by extension, the industry, were evaluating companies incorrectly. When they learned how to evaluate such things as sticky users, new unique visitors, bandwidth and online adshare percentage per company, it was inevitable that there'd be a mass correction in valuation. Like, all companies, across the board. Did govt econ decisions cause the bubble to burst, speed the process, lessen or increase the breadth and length of the crash? I'm sure the answer would depend on whom I'm talking to or what lecture class I'm sitting in. But I will say it does seem hard not to point to something you already disagree with and not find it to be a factor.

  6. #66
    I like big buts Sir Caveat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan26 View Post
    To be fair though, there's a ton of information but how do you discern what's a) accurate and b) had the most measurable effect? As an example, I worked at an investment bank in the late 90s into 2000, just into the beginning of the tech bubble bust. I was in a wholly separate dept from technology and venture but some of the things I learned (they learned) was that they, and by extension, the industry, were evaluating companies incorrectly. When they learned how to evaluate such things as sticky users, new unique visitors, bandwidth and online adshare percentage per company, it was inevitable that there'd be a mass correction in valuation. Like, all companies, across the board. Did govt econ decisions cause the bubble to burst, speed the process, lessen or increase the breadth and length of the crash? I'm sure the answer would depend on whom I'm talking to or what lecture class I'm sitting in. But I will say it does seem hard not to point to something you already disagree with and not find it to be a factor.
    I appreciate that bias can lead to wrong conclusions, even when intelligent and well informed. And even a well informed person lacking much bias on the matter can get it wrong because of uncertainties about the data, because it's a complex multi-factor matter, and/or because he lacks some insight. Still, it's even more hazardous to make conclusions ignorant of available information.

    Investors could have avoided being burned by the tech bubble by using fundamental analysis with available information about the companies. During the bubble, tech companies had either no earnings or high PE ratios that weren't justified by the company's growth rate. I avoided buying stocks of such companies.
    Last edited by Sir Caveat; Yesterday at 01:01 PM.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faust View Post
    There's no such thing. Just Capitalism, unchecked or otherwise. The irony here is that the reds employ the same no-true-Scotsman line about Communism never having been "true" Communism. Or that the dictators were necessary because Capitalists were hanging around elsewhere in the world. Capitalism is what Capitalism does.

    Some still reserve the hope we can save it from itself through democratic means, e.g. by taxing capital globally. The only reason inequality plummeted in the early 20th century (remember, the playing field at the turn of the century wasn't even by any stretch) is that two world wars destroyed most of the capital in the old world.



    Thank the big ever-consolidating corporates, an everlasting product of Capitalism.
    What I am looking at is the theoretical as opposed to practical implementation. True the same could be said about Communism or any other "ism" for that matter. The core issue however is the introduction of the human factor. There is no form of government that is not nor will ever be corrupted by man. It is a fact of human nature that one group will always seek to rule over, or at least have a higher status than another. The inverse is also true, there will ALWAYS be one group that seeks to enrich themselves by taking from another. There will ALWAYS be someone out there to blow your candle out to make theirs seem to burn brighter. Eventually though the pot runs dry for one reason or another and the next group enters to implement their "ism". "Lather, Rinse, Repeat".

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