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Thread: Unrest in Venezuela

  1. #41
    I like big buts Sir Caveat's Avatar
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    Boligarch jailed in US over bribes related to the Chavista currency exchange racket.

    Andrade was a bodyguard to the late Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez before being named head of Venezuela's treasury, a position he held from 2007 to January 2011. . . .

    Court records show how Andrade took advantage of strict currency controls introduced by President Chávez and used his position to "sell" access to preferential exchange rates.

    He allowed his co-conspirators to buy dollars from Venezuela's treasury at a fixed low rate normally reserved for the purchase of key goods such as medicines, only for them to then sell the dollars at a huge profit on the black market.

    In exchange, he received bribes worth $1bn in the form of a mansion in Wellington, Florida, horses for his son's Olympic equestrian ambitions and Rolex watches.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member Guess Who's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senseye View Post
    Well I agree the US shouldn't really meddle. But I think sanctions are probably within a country's rights and possibly the best way to deal with someone you consider a bad actor. Beats military intervention in any event.

    Keep in mind there is a large outcry about the humanitarian crisis, and the "the world needs to do something". Now you have to admit, it is possible the Maduro regime is completely corrupt. If so, simply sending foreign aid to be confiscated and misused by a corrupt regime is counter productive. It simply serves to prop up said regime.

    I will certainly reject any notion that US actions led to Venezuela's demise. Venezuelans are personally responsible for their own demise by electing a series of incompetent politicians (legitimately and of their own free will) who mismanaged the country. At this point I think they now have a corrupt autocrat in Maduro who will NOT allow them to have any more legitimate elections. That is still their problem to solve.
    It seems people have difficulty agreeing whether efforts of the US government to see Guido come to power in Venezuela are an attempt to deal with a humanitarian crisis of Maduro's making or part of a long-term plan to bring about regime change because of the question of socialism.

    Consider other countries where the US the US government sought to remove a leader and replace him with someone else such as Iraq, Syria and Libya. Did the US have a hand in starting or fueling the civil war with a view to removing Assad, or was the US just supporting the Syrian people in their aspirations for democracy? I have a trouble accepting that narrative. The US seems keen to bring about regime change in countries that seek to be independent of the US (particularly resource rich ones) and countries in the sphere of influence of other world powers.
    Love displaces fear

  3. #43
    Senior Member Sinny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guess Who View Post
    It seems people have difficulty agreeing whether efforts of the US government to see Guido come to power in Venezuela are an attempt to deal with a humanitarian crisis of Maduro's making or part of a long-term plan to bring about regime change because of the question of socialism.

    Consider other countries where the US the US government sought to remove a leader and replace him with someone else such as Iraq, Syria and Libya. Did the US have a hand in starting or fueling the civil war with a view to removing Assad, or was the US just supporting the Syrian people in their aspirations for democracy? I have a trouble accepting that narrative. The US seems keen to bring about regime change in countries that seek to be independent of the US (particularly resource rich ones) and countries in the sphere of influence of other world powers.
    It's as simple and obvious as this, from my perspective.
    Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.

    ~ Robert Jackson, Statesman (1892-1954)


  4. #44
    Senior Member Sinny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Caveat View Post
    Class consciousness?
    Everybody should be class conscious.
    Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.

    ~ Robert Jackson, Statesman (1892-1954)


  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinny View Post
    Everybody should be class conscious.
    Sounds like a religious conviction.
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  6. #46
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    Regarding the conspiracy theory/simplistic explanation about America ruining Venezuela's economy, in the face of all the evidence pointing to the actual culprits, the chavista regime and the boligarchs, Jonn Oliver's comment [in video posted by Guess Who] is apt: "Accusing America of creating Venezuela's crisis is about as fair as accusing OJ Simpson of murdering Princess Dianna."
    You hide behind caveats and modifiers. - Lurker

  7. #47
    Senior Member Sinny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Caveat View Post
    Sounds like a religious conviction.
    It is.
    Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.

    ~ Robert Jackson, Statesman (1892-1954)


  8. #48
    Senior Member Sinny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Caveat View Post
    Regarding the conspiracy theory/simplistic explanation about America ruining Venezuela's economy, in the face of all the evidence pointing to the actual culprits, the chavista regime and the boligarchs, Jonn Oliver's comment [in video posted by Guess Who] is apt: "Accusing America of creating Venezuela's crisis is about as fair as accusing OJ Simpson of murdering Princess Dianna."
    Nobody has offered a whole simplistic explanation. I'm just saying the USA don't give a rats ass about offering real "aid", what they care about is politically motivated regime change. Considering America's historical involvement with S.America and the Middle East, I think it's safe to say that a pattern of warfare, in various forms, is evident.

    Where was the aid for those Katrina survivors? Or those in Haiti??

    Nowhere to be seen, that's where.

    All the money was peddled to private contractors, who never actually done their job.
    And that's the crux of capitalism.
    Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.

    ~ Robert Jackson, Statesman (1892-1954)


  9. #49
    Senior Member Senseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guess Who View Post
    The US seems keen to bring about regime change in countries that seek to be independent of the US (particularly resource rich ones) and countries in the sphere of influence of other world powers.
    Well at this point, outside of the sanctions (which are not really adding much to the mess Venezuela already created for itself) support of Guaido amounts to nothing more than a bunch of politicians making empty proclamations. Those are about as useless as those UN resolutions one often hears about.

    I might lend some credence to your evil-US theory if, and only if, the US intervenes militarily.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinny View Post
    Nobody has offered a whole simplistic explanation. I'm just saying the USA don't give a rats ass about offering real "aid", what they care about is politically motivated regime change. Considering America's historical involvement with S.America and the Middle East, I think it's safe to say that a pattern of warfare, in various forms, is evident.

    Where was the aid for those Katrina survivors? Or those in Haiti??

    Nowhere to be seen, that's where.

    All the money was peddled to private contractors, who never actually done their job.
    And that's the crux of capitalism.
    Socialism produces dictators and famine, but at least they really care. Uh huh
    You hide behind caveats and modifiers. - Lurker

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