View Poll Results: Are we living in a simulation?

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Thread: Are we living in a "simulation"?

  1. #71
    Cooler than Jesus
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    I've never experienced anything I found to be metaphysical. There's been plenty of weird seeming coincidences, but that's just chance. And "physics" isn't a monolith, it's full of competing theories, all with differing levels of evidence to back up them. I hope that some big revelations will come in my lifetime that help our understanding of reality go much further, but at the same time I feel like there's some things that will forever be unknowable to us, or many more things that we can never prove to a sufficient extent. Humans just aren't built to accurately observe or understand objective reality, we're built to create our own version of reality based that (ideally) helps us survive and function on a day-to-day basis.

  2. #72
    Senior Member Tetris Champion notdavidlynch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NedLudd View Post
    I've never experienced anything I found to be metaphysical.
    You might be one of them there zombies they hypothesize.

  3. #73
    Ieilaelite pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NedLudd View Post
    I've never experienced anything I found to be metaphysical.
    Of course you have, if you are conscious. All a priori knowledge, math, language, beauty, hope, love, your own will. You're not just a Chinese room spitting out responses with no self - awareness, are you? There is someone in there?

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by notdavidlynch View Post
    You might be one of them there zombies they hypothesize.
    From my perspective, the dualists are the zombies!

    But no, I really haven't ever experienced anything like that. I grew up an evangelical Christian, prayed, tried to "feel the spirit", etc, but there was never anything, no voices talking back. I've tried mysticism, meditation, drugs, going alone into the wilderness, and nothing has ever happened to me where I thought "Wow, this can only be explained by there being metaphysical forces." Dunno, maybe the metaphysical part of my brain is stunted. I also can't burp.

    Quote Originally Posted by pensive_pilgrim View Post
    Of course you have, if you are conscious. All a priori knowledge, math, language, beauty, hope, love, your own will. You're not just a Chinese room spitting out responses with no self - awareness, are you? There is someone in there?
    Why do those things have to be metaphysical? And I tend to believe that ego, consciousness, and self-awareness are convenient heuristics to keep us functioning, just a fairly small portion of what's going on in the background but also the only thing that "we" can perceive. Do enough psychedelics and they melt all tend to just melt away. "I" don't actually exist. But the brain is incredibly complex to the point where we can't even come close to replicating it, and we understand it even worse than we do the laws of physics. So I think it's a leap to say that just because it doesn't seem some lumps of gray matter that alone that it must be magic.

  5. #75
    Meae Musae Servus Hephaestus's Avatar
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    "Just because it's 2020 doesn't mean everyone has perfect vision."--catchphrase of a fictional comedian in some movie

  6. #76
    Ieilaelite pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NedLudd View Post
    Why do those things have to be metaphysical?
    Because they transcend the physical.

    And I tend to believe that ego, consciousness, and self-awareness are convenient heuristics to keep us functioning, just a fairly small portion of what's going on in the background but also the only thing that "we" can perceive. Do enough psychedelics and they melt all tend to just melt away. "I" don't actually exist. But the brain is incredibly complex to the point where we can't even come close to replicating it, and we understand it even worse than we do the laws of physics. So I think it's a leap to say that just because it doesn't seem some lumps of gray matter that alone that it must be magic.
    Yeah, it's pretty hard to prove a negative. The onus is usually on the one making positive assertions to provide evidence. So where is your evidence that consciousness comes from the brain? Keep in mind I'm talking about the root consciousness, which is to say awareness of the experience of existence. I'm making this clarification because we use the word "conscious" in multiple and very different ways. If I'm sleeping you might say I'm unconscious. Yet I dream and have experiences in that state. The brain is certainly responsible for my power of thought, which allows me to communicate the experience of the metaphysical, and to use the metaphysical as a model for predicting the physical. But it doesn't generate a priori knowledge like geometry - these things must be discovered. No drugs I can take will change them, and they don't exist in the physical world to experience empirically.

    You can say that you don't understand how the brain works, but recognize that it has a physical nature. Just as I can say that I don't understand how consciousness works, but recognize that it has a metaphysical nature.

    Also, we're about as lost on the "laws" of physics as we are on the functioning of the brain. We just have some useful models that work for things like building cars and bridges and computers. When we look closely, we find that local realism doesn't hold up, materialism makes no sense, and the behavior of the physical world seems to be determined mainly by conscious decisions.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by pensive_pilgrim View Post
    Because they transcend the physical.

    Yeah, it's pretty hard to prove a negative. The onus is usually on the one making positive assertions to provide evidence. So where is your evidence that consciousness comes from the brain? Keep in mind I'm talking about the root consciousness, which is to say awareness of the experience of existence. I'm making this clarification because we use the word "conscious" in multiple and very different ways. If I'm sleeping you might say I'm unconscious. Yet I dream and have experiences in that state. The brain is certainly responsible for my power of thought, which allows me to communicate the experience of the metaphysical, and to use the metaphysical as a model for predicting the physical. But it doesn't generate a priori knowledge like geometry - these things must be discovered. No drugs I can take will change them, and they don't exist in the physical world to experience empirically.

    You can say that you don't understand how the brain works, but recognize that it has a physical nature. Just as I can say that I don't understand how consciousness works, but recognize that it has a metaphysical nature.

    Also, we're about as lost on the "laws" of physics as we are on the functioning of the brain. We just have some useful models that work for things like building cars and bridges and computers. When we look closely, we find that local realism doesn't hold up, materialism makes no sense, and the behavior of the physical world seems to be determined mainly by conscious decisions.
    As far as I know, there's not any great theories about how consciousness works, but that's not evidence that it can't be physical either. Where's your evidence that a metaphysical component exists, beyond not understanding how everything could be physical? These debates ultimately come down to that so frankly I find them to be largely pointless. But I've never seen anything to suggest that I'm anything more than my component atoms, assuming we're not somehow wrong about atoms. Even if I were just a piece of a simulated reality, I'd guess that my existence is an accidental byproduct of its systemic rules rather than the intended purpose - as in the only difference is that I would be a collection of "simulated" atoms.

  8. #78
    Member Bking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Sometimes it be like that.

  9. #79
    Ieilaelite pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NedLudd View Post
    As far as I know, there's not any great theories about how consciousness works, but that's not evidence that it can't be physical either. Where's your evidence that a metaphysical component exists, beyond not understanding how everything could be physical? These debates ultimately come down to that so frankly I find them to be largely pointless. But I've never seen anything to suggest that I'm anything more than my component atoms, assuming we're not somehow wrong about atoms. Even if I were just a piece of a simulated reality, I'd guess that my existence is an accidental byproduct of its systemic rules rather than the intended purpose - as in the only difference is that I would be a collection of "simulated" atoms.
    I've told you my evidence twice now. The world of mind. The a priori knowledge that we cannot alter but can only access through being conscious. The fact that I remain conscious even if all of my senses are cut off.

    I'll add my own experience of universal consciousness, something that has been experienced by many if not most humans over the ages.

  10. #80
    Married Mouth-breather JohnClay's Avatar
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    I've made a new simulation related site called Life's Player

    It begins with "Welcome, Life's Player"

    I'm not sure if the grammar is right - it might imply that there is only one player

    https://www.lifesplayer.com/

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