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Thread: If you could migrate anywhere, would you?

  1. #31
    Cooler than Jesus
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    Quote Originally Posted by pensive_pilgrim View Post
    Okay, well... Norway disagrees. In fact Norway has recently been requesting more US military presence. Maybe it's not the place for you, seems like you wouldn't be able to agree with them on the most basic things.
    Yeah probably not, they are pretty conservative on top of all the other negative things I've said about them... in fact I never said I wanted to move to Norway at all so I'm not really sure why we're focusing on that. If I were to move strictly for social policies I might move to NZ but it's becoming a toss-up these days, everyone is moving to the right.

    And richer people are healthier than poor ones, generally. I don't think Norwegians are somehow magically more caring as a people than Americans, or any other sufficiently large group of humans. I think they have some better policies. But if you want to have less disposable income and see more of it go to the less fortunate, there is a very simple way for you to accomplish this right here. You would be in good company, as Americans have nearly the highest rate of charitable donations in the world - quite a bit higher than Norway.


    There are several million Americans working in the health insurance industry. Yes, those people get a voice too. It's not an easy problem to solve. The only way it will be solved is by Americans believing it can be solved and putting in the work. But you've given up on America. Moving to Norway might be good for you, but I doubt it would be good for Norway.
    Like I said, I don't think a society that has to depend on charitable giving is a good or healthy one. The whole idea of wealthy individuals being lauded for giving their money to charity is BS imo, you should haven't individuals getting to decide where vast amounts of wealth that they never should have been allowed to hoard in the first place gets spent. It tends to get spent on saving the whales as much as it does on fucking the whales. How about we take care of people in the first place so charity isn't required?

  2. #32
    TJ TeresaJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pensive_pilgrim View Post
    I won't argue that Norway has better welfare. It's a wealthy country with a lot of oil money. It also depends on NATO for its defense, but refuses to contribute the agreed-upon amount of its own money towards that defense. That doesn't seem like social responsibility to me. Norway looks out for Norway, just like any other country.

    Anyway, you pay less in taxes here, especially if you're middle class. You can spend that money on long term disability insurance, and on better medical insurance. You can put it in a 529 for your kids to go to a state school which will be just as good as any Norwegian school. Depending on how much you make (and spend, and own), you could take out an extra five to twenty percent of your gross income as the amount you'd be paying in taxes. Probably more than enough to pay for four years at an elite liberal arts school where everybody jerks each other off about "environmental stewardship". The only way I can see Norway definitely being a better option is if you are already poor. And if you are, you might as well just wish to be rich, it's as good as wishing to live in Norway.

    Social responsibility isn't wanting more stuff from the government. It's wanting to contribute more to society in order to make things better for others. If you want to be around socially responsible people, go out and volunteer. There are a ton of socially responsible people all around us, quietly working to provide others privileges we take for granted. Seriously, whenever I can motivate my lazy ass to go volunteer I'm blown away by the kindness and generosity of most of the people I meet.

    And don't get me wrong, I want stronger safety nets here. I want more welfare and universal healthcare. I want public no-cost community college. But I don't want to move to another country to get those things for myself, I would rather work toward having them here. There are people here who actually need it.
    You're not wrong, but we're talking about the fantasy of living in a less stressful environment.

    People in less stratified societies are generally more content than those in more stratified societies, even if they're well off within that stratified society.

    ...I guess I'll be less stressed when I'm dead.
    Too bad, Lady Une. You were far too lenient.
    As a soldier, yes. But as a civilian I lived an austere life.

  3. #33
    know nothing pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NedLudd View Post
    Yeah probably not, they are pretty conservative on top of all the other negative things I've said about them... in fact I never said I wanted to move to Norway at all so I'm not really sure why we're focusing on that. If I were to move strictly for social policies I might move to NZ but it's becoming a toss-up these days, everyone is moving to the right.
    I guess I misunderstood, but you did say you'd like to move to "a country like" Norway. But I didn't bring up Scandinavian countries in reference to you in particular, others in the thread have mentioned it and it seems to be a common popular fantasy destination among white liberals on the internet. Not that I'm calling you a liberal, clearly you have radical views. Or something, I'm not trying to be insulting.

    Like I said, I don't think a society that has to depend on charitable giving is a good or healthy one. The whole idea of wealthy individuals being lauded for giving their money to charity is BS imo, you should haven't individuals getting to decide where vast amounts of wealth that they never should have been allowed to hoard in the first place gets spent. It tends to get spent on saving the whales as much as it does on fucking the whales. How about we take care of people in the first place so charity isn't required?
    Nobody said anything about just wealthy people giving. The survey I linked is a Gallup poll that asks people about their recent behavior in regards to giving to charity, volunteering or helping a stranger. And I think it's odd that you would take liberal social policies as evidence of people in a society caring about the less fortunate, but dismiss entirely charitable giving. Nobody is arguing that there should be no welfare and only charity. Charity and welfare are both evidence of people in a society wanting to help those less fortunate than them.

    Like I said, if you want to live in a healthier society there are things you can choose to do to make society healthier. But if you just want to move somewhere where the problems are already solved so you can avoid them, that's not social responsibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by TeresaJ View Post
    You're not wrong, but we're talking about the fantasy of living in a less stressful environment.

    People in less stratified societies are generally more content than those in more stratified societies, even if they're well off within that stratified society.

    ...I guess I'll be less stressed when I'm dead.
    I suppose it depends on who you consider to be part of your society. It seems like most people are inclined to look upward rather than downward when assessing their relative position on the ladder. I've generally made significantly less money than the average American, but I consider myself quite privileged. I think most of us are. Maybe that's just my perspective as someone who grew up "working class" and then was homeless for a little while. But I also think suffering is a necessary part of life, and I don't look at wealthier people and think they are enjoying life more than me. They tend to seem really stressed out about losing their wealth or social status.


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