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Thread: Veganism

  1. #61
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    So vegans should instead focus their efforts on making policies with China to use less coal.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senseye View Post
    I agree Blorg. For example, I dutifully throw the correct waste objects in my blue bin even though I know 80%+ of it ends up in the landfill anyways.

    However, I think it is good to have your eyes wide open. Some people think actions such as these are actually saving the world*, which could cause them to ignore the necessary actions needed to have significant impact.


    *Disclaimer: I'm not an eco-warrier (worrier?) to begin with, but I mean regarding problems in general. People need to spend more time thinking rationally about effective measures instead of just doing what 'feels' good. So says the INTP.
    aah...

    I've experienced this archetype.

    At my old job, when others found I'm vegetarian, they assaulted me with a barrage of questions / debates to prove to me that it was pointless that I was vegetarian. "but people have been eating meat since forever". "but almost milk is bad". "what about x". ....

    I was like "fuck. I don't really want to debate it. It's just what I think." They kept bringing it up again and again, while I would say "okay, cool... [change subject]". Then I played around with them "I'm vegetarian because I like to feel I'm better than you" They couldn't tell I was joking (rofl).

    Here's a question: why does it bother people so much that some people think that some things they do may be having a positive impact on the planet? Why do people need to attempt to prove them wrong? We talk about proselytising vegetarians. Fuck, take a look in the mirror. I just want to live mate. Yeah, I also have some things I think are worth doing. You disagree? Cool, keep it to yourself. These people are just like religious nutters. "but what will happen when you die?" Or teenage atheists "I just can't stand that christians believe things that I don't. I've got to make them realise that they're wrong!!" Keep it to yourself.

  3. #63
    Meae Musae Servus Hephaestus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scarydoor View Post
    Here's a question: why does it bother people so much that some people think that some things they do may be having a positive impact on the planet? Why do people need to attempt to prove them wrong? We talk about proselytising vegetarians. Fuck, take a look in the mirror. I just want to live mate. Yeah, I also have some things I think are worth doing. You disagree? Cool, keep it to yourself. These people are just like religious nutters. "but what will happen when you die?" Or teenage atheists "I just can't stand that christians believe things that I don't. I've got to make them realise that they're wrong!!" Keep it to yourself.
    I've observed a couple things. One is that some people feel personally attacked if other people have the view that something they are doing is morally wrong. The other is that people get irritated when they have to add layers of consideration to things that used to be fun and simple. Like pizza parties. Really any group eating activity gets ugly the more it turns into a wolf/goat/cabbage problem as a result of ideological dietary practices.

    That can also be extended to other issues like gender on public restrooms, emotional support animals--even racism. Anytime you upend what the majority considered a resolved non-issue and make it into something people are expected to expend energy being more considered in their approach, expect people to respond with anger and irritation.

    I suppose you could say these are all consequences of being a social organism, so things that threaten what was previously safe socialization are going to see backlash as people try to defend that area from becoming difficult.
    People think they understand their own mortality, even when that understanding has just changed.

    --Meditations on Uncertainty Vol ξ(x)

  4. #64
    Now we know... Asteroids Champion ACow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scarydoor View Post
    Here's a question: why does it bother people so much that some people think that some things they do may be having a positive impact on the planet? Why do people need to attempt to prove them wrong? We talk about proselytising vegetarians. Fuck, take a look in the mirror. I just want to live mate. Yeah, I also have some things I think are worth doing. You disagree? Cool, keep it to yourself. These people are just like religious nutters. "but what will happen when you die?" Or teenage atheists "I just can't stand that christians believe things that I don't. I've got to make them realise that they're wrong!!" Keep it to yourself.
    Life as a non-drinker in Australia :P

    The human condition, at least it seems for the majority of humans, appears to involve comfort that everyone else is doing similar things to you and reinforcing your choices and behaviours.

    The moment they come up against ANYONE who, via some choice or deviation, makes a choice or action that implies a consciously chosen choice or action that differs from their own, and something breaks in their brain.

    That being said, I think one has to give some leeway to the teenagers. Fighting about these things is important to building one's own sense of place and self-worth...

  5. #65
    INFj-Ne (EII) / 9w1 sourpatchkid!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scarydoor View Post
    So vegans should instead focus their efforts on making policies with China to use less coal.
    speak of the devil...

    It's a new art form
    showing people how little
    we care

  6. #66
    schlemiel Faust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sourpatchkid! View Post
    speak of the devil...

    Actually a book *about* the study, which was originally 900+ pages. And Campbell has been accused of misrepresenting it.
    "All my heroes are dead" - John Zorn

    "It's not selfish if you hate yourself"

  7. #67
    Senior Member Sinny's Avatar
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    Never going to be a vegan, unlikely to ever be veggie.

    I'd do both those things if it woukd drastically impact the world, but as an individual, it will not.

    I think more needs to be done about animal welfare rights, but we can't even get out governments to treat humans humanely, so I wouldn't know where to begin in getting them to take animal welfare rights more seriously. (In the current political climate).

    I figure the lions eat gazelle, and the gazelle eat the grass.. and human can eat pretty much anything they like.

    The circle of life.

    People really ought to stop eating cats & dogs & intelligent animals though, that's just disrespectful to nature & domestication.
    When tyranny becomes law
    Rebellion becomes duty.



  8. #68
    Senior Member rokki balbotox's Avatar
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    I don't even like meat that much-- it's the dairy I could never give up. Butter and cheese man I just could never let that go. Vegetarian I miiight be able to swing that, but I really like to snack on bottom of the shelf meats like liverwurst/vienna sausages/slim Jim's, oftentimes i want them more than like a porkchop or a steak

    Idk with veganism, I'd have to give up leather and shit too

  9. #69
    INFj-Ne (EII) / 9w1 sourpatchkid!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faust View Post
    Actually a book *about* the study, which was originally 900+ pages. And Campbell has been accused of misrepresenting it.
    (-__-)

    Quote Originally Posted by rokki balbotox View Post
    Idk with veganism, I'd have to give up leather and shit too
    i still use leather belts and who knows how many other animal-derived products besides.

    also eating a lot of this dark chocolate i got at Trader Joe's, didn't realize until halfway through the bag that one of the ingredients is milk fat or somesuch.

    i'm doing my best, i'm not going to obsess over details. i'll just be vegan-ish.
    It's a new art form
    showing people how little
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  10. #70
    Senior Member Senseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blorg View Post
    What are these "necessary actions" that vegans should be taking?
    The same as everyone else I guess. By that I mean veganism/vegetarianism itself is sort of irrelevant (environmentally speaking).

    There is reasonable evidence that a vegetarian diet is healthy. I can understand pursuing it for that reason, but not for ideological reasons. To each his/her own however.

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