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Thread: The B in LGBT means there are only 2 genders

  1. #11
    unbeknownst Lilith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roki View Post
    Saw this online earlier, and was wondering your thoughts on it
    I think whoever wrote it confused sexual orientation with gender identity.

    https://www.hrc.org/resources/sexual...nd-definitions

  2. #12
    Ieilaelite pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    If gender is not an objective and measurable thing then it is useless for identification and medical purposes and there is no reason for anyone who isn't in interested in knowing you personally to care about it. So then we are back to using sex on ID documents, and then some people will be unhappy again because they don't like their sex.

  3. #13
    No Thank You Blorg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pensive_pilgrim View Post
    If gender is not an objective and measurable thing then it is useless for identification and medical purposes and there is no reason for anyone who isn't in interested in knowing you personally to care about it.
    Yes, that's why scientists and doctors use the word "sex" for such circumstances, and for example, specify "sex" rather than "gender" on birth certificates. Gender refers to the cultural interpretations related to sexes. Terms like masculine and feminine are related more closely to gender than sex, because you don't need to be male in order to act in a way that your culture considers masculine, and vice versa.

  4. #14
    Senior Member roki's Avatar
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    How do they determine which sex is appropriate for a person with both reproductive parts (on the birth certificate)?

  5. #15
    Ieilaelite pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blorg View Post
    Yes, that's why scientists and doctors use the word "sex" for such circumstances, and for example, specify "sex" rather than "gender" on birth certificates. Gender refers to the cultural interpretations related to sexes. Terms like masculine and feminine are related more closely to gender than sex, because you don't need to be male in order to act in a way that your culture considers masculine, and vice versa.
    Nope, most states now allow people to change the sex on their birth certificate, and all of them allow people to change the gender on their driver's licenses. It is completely pointless for the state to be documenting people's "gender identity" or whatever they wish to call it.

  6. #16
    No Thank You Blorg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pensive_pilgrim View Post
    Nope, most states now allow people to change the sex on their birth certificate, and all of them allow people to change the gender on their driver's licenses. It is completely pointless for the state to be documenting people's "gender identity" or whatever they wish to call it.
    Whether or not doctors allow people to change their listed sex is a different issue from whether or not they use the terminology of sex alongside gender. I was responding to the latter:

    If gender is not an objective and measurable thing then it is useless for identification and medical purposes and there is no reason for anyone who isn't in interested in knowing you personally to care about it.
    Adding to this, I think it's important to note that male/female distinctions aren't being pushed out to make way for gender distinctions in the medical or scientific spheres. Their use isn't mutually exclusive.

    Distinguishing sex from gender allows for greater precision and fluency because cultural norms often differ from scientific distinctions. A normal person wouldn't casually call someone a "male," because that term belongs in laboratories and hospitals. they would use a gender term instead, because it's standard in many situations to do so. That doesn't mean that the terms "male" and "female" are outmoded; they're just used in the appropriate circumstances.

    I don't really get why people here are resistant to seeing them as different things. It's not even political on this level, it's just a matter of precision and context.

  7. #17
    Ieilaelite pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blorg View Post
    Whether or not doctors allow people to change their listed sex is a different issue from whether or not they use the terminology of sex alongside gender. I was responding to the latter:
    I don't know why you quote me and then work so hard to avoid discussing what I am saying. If people can choose their gender, there is no reason for anyone to document gender for official purposes. If people can choose their sex, the concept of sex becomes such that there is no reason to document it for official purposes.


    Adding to this, I think it's important to note that male/female distinctions aren't being pushed out to make way for gender distinctions in the medical or scientific spheres. Their use isn't mutually exclusive.

    Distinguishing sex from gender allows for greater precision and fluency because cultural norms often differ from scientific distinctions. A normal person wouldn't casually call someone a "male," because that term belongs in laboratories and hospitals. they would use a gender term instead, because it's standard in many situations to do so. That doesn't mean that the terms "male" and "female" are outmoded; they're just used in the appropriate circumstances.

    I don't really get why people here are resistant to seeing them as different things. It's not even political on this level, it's just a matter of precision and context.
    I don't see anybody here resistant to seeing them as different things. It's kinda odd that you're mansplaining the concept.

  8. #18
    Meae Musae Servus Hephaestus's Avatar
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    I use the words male and female casually to refer to people.
    "Just because it's 2020 doesn't mean everyone has perfect vision."--catchphrase of a fictional comedian in some movie

  9. #19
    No Thank You Blorg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    I use the words male and female casually to refer to people.
    I casually refer to some people I meet as those who produce gametes such as spermatozoa, with which it is possible to fertilize or inseminate. Other people I simply refer to as those who can bear offspring or produce eggs.

    "Yesterday I met this spermatozoa producer at the pub..."

  10. #20
    Meae Musae Servus Hephaestus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blorg View Post
    I casually refer to some people I meet as those who produce gametes such as spermatozoa, with which it is possible to fertilize or inseminate. Other people I simply refer to as those who can bear offspring or produce eggs.

    "Yesterday I met this spermatozoa producer at the pub..."
    Exactly. It clarifies things. Sometimes that sort of context is crucial to understanding an anecdote.

    I also use male and female to refer to plumbing and electrical connections. I also casually throw around words like bovine, ursine, vulpine, and hominid.

    If my words are caged my speech is not free.

    Edit: curious, when using man or woman to refer to a person, do you mean something other than male or female? To me the difference between male/female and man/woman is one is generic and the other is specifies human the same way stallion and mare specify equines.
    Last edited by Hephaestus; 11-06-2019 at 09:02 AM.
    "Just because it's 2020 doesn't mean everyone has perfect vision."--catchphrase of a fictional comedian in some movie

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