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Thread: The 1990s and 2000s were bad for society

  1. #11
    Senior Member Spartan26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    Well, we might both be right on one issue, which is when Gen X comes of age. Gen X includes people born up to 1979, so, yeah, as a representative of that myself, I came of age in the 90s
    Madge says, "Generation X, and by that I mean ME!" Baa, too bad you weren't a part of the Me Generation of the 70s. Remindes me of Natasha Leggero. (The whole thing is funny but you made me think of the Gwenie & Oprah bits starting at about 6:40 in)

    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    Every ideology needs its nemesis, and once communism is gone, what is capitalism, anyway? The end of history? It's what they said. And it's partly why this generation had no vision of the future.
    Don't you remember, we all wept because there were no more worlds to conquer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    And yeah, that social deterioration does explain Tupac and other trends.
    Nope, because Tupac wasn't saying anything that Marvin Gaye wasn't. Marvin wasn't saying anything that Sam Cooke and the Temptations weren't saying. And they were saying the same thing Mahalia Jackson was saying. Who was saying the same thing Billie Holiday was saying. Who wasn't saying anything different that what James Weldon Johnson was saying.

    As far as the whole wealth thing goes, I certainly didn't mean that we all got rich but the bank was broken for a larger proportion of society at a much earlier age than had ever been known. I don't know if we really dropped the baton or if we traded in decreasing long-term benies for upfront cash. Farms foreclosures and long-standing, blue chip companies filing for bankruptcy & chapter 11 kicked off in the 70s and gained speed in the 80s. But failings and trends that happened in the early 80s wouldn't have been on Gen X's watch.

    Idk, like overall. If I may ask, what were you and your friends doing in the 90s? I feel like our differences of perspective goes beyond age and country of residence. Yours comes across as this erudite, 300-level, Appreciation of Film recitation. Meanwhile, I was down the hall, kicking over some chairs cuz the lab overexposed the master footage of my short film.

  2. #12
    Now we know... Asteroids Champion ACow's Avatar
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    To be fair, the 90's was like a pre-eternal-september of the internet, before it got turned into a javascripted walled-garden corporate social media nightmare...

  3. #13
    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan26 View Post
    Nope, because Tupac wasn't saying anything that Marvin Gaye wasn't. Marvin wasn't saying anything that Sam Cooke and the Temptations weren't saying. And they were saying the same thing Mahalia Jackson was saying. Who was saying the same thing Billie Holiday was saying. Who wasn't saying anything different that what James Weldon Johnson was saying.
    Now you're just saying things without meaning.

    As far as the whole wealth thing goes, I certainly didn't mean that we all got rich but the bank was broken for a larger proportion of society at a much earlier age than had ever been known. I don't know if we really dropped the baton or if we traded in decreasing long-term benies for upfront cash. Farms foreclosures and long-standing, blue chip companies filing for bankruptcy & chapter 11 kicked off in the 70s and gained speed in the 80s. But failings and trends that happened in the early 80s wouldn't have been on Gen X's watch.
    I disagree with that, because the very oldest Gen Xer would have been 20 years old in 1985. So no, the shit that went down during Reagan-Thatcher wasn't on our "watch".

    Idk, like overall. If I may ask, what were you and your friends doing in the 90s?
    I spent the 90s in Canada, the Caribbean and Argentina. I was in high school/uni.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Heh. We've been here years now.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Limes's Avatar
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    I blame Pokemon

  5. #15
    Mens bona regnum possidet ferrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    Well, the 90s were the coming of age of Generation X, which, as its name implies, doesn't really believe in much. It doesn't believe in communism, it doesn't believe in capitalism, it doesn't believe in -isms, and its teenagehood was something of a long night, ideologically speaking. To me, the pinnacle of its representation was Nirvana. A mosquito, my libido, nothing means anything. Try telling these guys you still want to take our raggedy humanism to the stars. When you think back on Generation X, they lived in antipathy, were inward-looking instead of outward-looking, and bordered on nihilism (there's a reason why they say we were "born for this quarantine"). Not the best ingredients for promoting an interest in space travel, which always has something of an epic, forward-looking and ideological narrative behind it, when not a downright patriotic one.

    9/11 definitively changed that nihilism and channelled the population back onto ideological lines, which became increasingly divergent as the war carried on. Here is where it starts to get interesting, as the world once again acquires the appearance of a theater of conflicting interests. The perception of change brings temporality back to the public consciousness, and we once again see ourselves in the future, not just in a neverending present. We're "going somewhere", though most will agree it's almost certainly not a good place. Why? Because we've lost the mantle of progress and the role of a species that brings progress with it to new frontiers (a conviction all sides of the planet shared during the Cold War). What that means for space travel, I'm not sure. Maybe it's just time to focus on our own earthly crap for a while. Or maybe space travel will be viewed increasingly as an opportunity for escape than for expansion.
    But even they had the sense that the technological sphere was increasing... there was even then a sense that progress could come from the liberation of the internet. The so-called California ideology. It's not coincidental, I'd say, that the iPhone - probably the last great socio-technological revolution that didn't turn out to be a bust of hype - was released in 2007, at the cusp of the financial crisis. Everything since then has been a working out of the astonishing technical changes of the previous 40 years, working itself out in ways that are deeply disruptive and yet at the same time, in a context of deep nostalgia, which is why 80s and 90s pop culture has become such a battleground. It's why Elon Musk has become a great lightning pole of the culture wars as he seems to offer the drug of progress that is slipping away. Both the populist left and right are mining enormous seams of nostalgic longing for a world that felt as if it is progressing.

    As most know though I am somewhat of a pessimist. This recent crisis has only empirically demonstrate to me what was once only a hypothesis supported by reason: that most people have no fucking clue what has happened, what is happening and what will happen.
    Die Logik ist keine Lehre, sondern ein Spiegelbild der Welt. Die Logik ist transcendental. - Wittgenstein

  6. #16
    Senior Member Tetris Champion notdavidlynch's Avatar
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    Society is bad because humans are bad and have always been bad about reasoning through cause and effect at larger scales.

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