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Thread: What wrongs would you like to see made right in your lifetime?

  1. #31
    Ieilaelite pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxyjen View Post
    There isn't an "expectation" per se. It's a natural consequence of biological inequity (i.e., if a relationship goes to shit during pregnancy, can the woman give the fetus to him for sole custody? joint custody? of course not). He has to make an effort to come back.
    The mother should be making an effort as well, to keep him in the family, for the child's sake. Children need fathers. But the mother is incentivized by the state to deny access to the father, and this is becoming more and more normalized in our culture.

    I know lots of single mothers, and they are just human beings. Relationships take work, and it's not always fun or romantic. When you bring kids into the picture, the kids should take priority. But the decision given to the mother is, you can either participate in the hard work of keeping a family together and healthy, or you can get rid of the guy you're no longer excited about, keep his financial contribution, and find a boyfriend you like. This is bad for everyone.

  2. #32
    A Transient Configuration Sistamatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pensive_pilgrim View Post
    The mother should be making an effort as well, to keep him in the family, for the child's sake. Children need fathers. But the mother is incentivized by the state to deny access to the father, and this is becoming more and more normalized in our culture.

    I know lots of single mothers, and they are just human beings. Relationships take work, and it's not always fun or romantic. When you bring kids into the picture, the kids should take priority. But the decision given to the mother is, you can either participate in the hard work of keeping a family together and healthy, or you can get rid of the guy you're no longer excited about, keep his financial contribution, and find a boyfriend you like. This is bad for everyone.
    I really do think this has to be thought about on a case by case basis. My husband's dad, for example, got all the parental visit rights he wanted...but it was his parents, my husband's grandparents, that used them. He remarried and treated the new wife's son like his own kid, and to this day, is a great father to his stepson and rarely remembers his own kid's birthday. In this instance, he was the one who wanted to move on and start over, and for him it was worth the cost of paying child support. My first husband's dad left when he was a month old and his brother was about 2. He just left and never came home one day. He never paid child support, never visited, never said hi, never tried to find out if they were ok, and they weren't. Mom was living hand to mouth working as a waitress with 2 kids, even homeless at times. They later found out he had knocked up another woman whose family had money and moved out of state with her and had a career and a nice house and several kids with his second wife...but he never filed for divorce from the first one for fear he'd be asked to pay child support if they knew where he was. My second husband's dad was a party guy who, despite still being married to his wife, almost never came home. He was in and out of prison the whole time his son was a kid. His son ran across a friend of his dad's at a bar as an adult, and this guy went on and on about how his dad would give the shirt off his back for a friend, how amazing he was. But through all of that he couldn't be bothered to be part of his own wife and kid's life. He was never even asked to pay child support because his wife knew that was like asking a beet to be bacon. The thing my husband now has that my ex husband's didn't was a stepdad who treated him like a son, and it made a huge difference for him. So yeah, I get what you are saying about a dad being important to a son. But you can't assume that mom being a selfish asshole who wants her cake and eat it too is the whole problem. It isn't. A significant part of the problem is dads leaving the women they knocked up to fend for themselves because it's easier than dealing with it.
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  3. #33
    Ieilaelite pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sistamatic View Post
    I really do think this has to be thought about on a case by case basis. My husband's dad, for example, got all the parental visit rights he wanted...but it was his parents, my husband's grandparents, that used them. He remarried and treated the new wife's son like his own kid, and to this day, is a great father to his stepson and rarely remembers his own kid's birthday. In this instance, he was the one who wanted to move on and start over, and for him it was worth the cost of paying child support. My first husband's dad left when he was a month old and his brother was about 2. He just left and never came home one day. He never paid child support, never visited, never said hi, never tried to find out if they were ok, and they weren't. Mom was living hand to mouth working as a waitress with 2 kids, even homeless at times. They later found out he had knocked up another woman whose family had money and moved out of state with her and had a career and a nice house and several kids with his second wife...but he never filed for divorce from the first one for fear he'd be asked to pay child support if they knew where he was. My second husband's dad was a party guy who, despite still being married to his wife, almost never came home. He was in and out of prison the whole time his son was a kid. His son ran across a friend of his dad's at a bar as an adult, and this guy went on and on about how his dad would give the shirt off his back for a friend, how amazing he was. But through all of that he couldn't be bothered to be part of his own wife and kid's life. He was never even asked to pay child support because his wife knew that was like asking a beet to be bacon. The thing my husband now has that my ex husband's didn't was a stepdad who treated him like a son, and it made a huge difference for him. So yeah, I get what you are saying about a dad being important to a son. But you can't assume that mom being a selfish asshole who wants her cake and eat it too is the whole problem. It isn't. A significant part of the problem is dads leaving the women they knocked up to fend for themselves because it's easier than dealing with it.
    Again, I'm not trying to call anyone a selfish asshole here. I'm saying the policies and the culture incentivize the situation of women being single moms, and this is clear from the statistics: about 1/5 of American children live in mom-only households. I'm not blaming the moms or the dads, I'm saying that we have a culture that doesn't value fatherhood, and perhaps as a result we have laws that make it easier for parents who aren't getting along to just split up, and for the kids and the money to stay with the mom.

    Parents with kids who are having relationship troubles should be given help with those troubles, and they should be heavily incentivized to stay together for the sake of their children. Divorcing when you have kids should be seen as a bad thing, taboo. So should abuse and infidelity. The laws and culture should not try to accommodate these things and make them easy.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Tetris Champion notdavidlynch's Avatar
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    Marriage should be entirely divorced from the law.

    Anyways, we don’t have a “cultural problem”. The phrase is brought up in situations where there’s obviously a problem, but it’s hard to define and virtually impossible to solve when thought of as being rooted in culture. It’s a cop-out.

    The real problem is technological and legal - we need a mandatory and enforceable form of birth control* that is cheap, reliable, and perfectly safe with minimal side effects. We need to account for human nature and stymie or pacify it.

    The majority of people just shouldn’t be having kids, and if we need a pinko commie, blood-thirsty revolution and genocide of Christians to make that happen, then I’m all for it. Let’s make life exciting for the zoo lions again.

    * Applied to everyone! Not just the Uyghurs or welfare recipients.
    Last edited by notdavidlynch; 09-17-2020 at 09:52 PM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by notdavidlynch View Post
    Marriage should be entirely divorced from the law.
    Marriage is basically a contract template. If you like the template, no need to make any revisions. But if you don't you can always get a prenup. Or not get married.

    Without the law, what is the point?

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