I ought to patent that idea!

**LordLatch** · 03-18-2014, 01:59 AM

Do any of you INTPComplexors hold patents? Hows about giving us noobs some tips?

Let's say a friend of mine sees a hole on a market opening up and knows he could build robots in his garage to manufacture a hypothetical product en masse. And sell said or rather unsaid product on ebay etc. This friend whom I know very well, knows just a little bit more than nothing about patent law.

Please unload all of your patent wisdom below and I will make sure friend reads it.

**Utisz** · 03-18-2014, 02:05 AM

I think @Thevenin has patents.

But mainly I came in here to complain about "INTPComplexors". It feels wrong, and not in a good way. It sounds like a muscle that's prone to straining or something.

**LordLatch** · 03-18-2014, 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by Utisz

I think @Thevenin has patents.

But mainly I came in here to complain about "INTPComplexors". It feels wrong, and not in a good way. It sounds like a muscle that's prone to straining or something.

Yeah he has done a bunch in his life like beat a rapist down, wrestled a bear, and caught a bullet between his teeth. I think he's the Chuck Norris of INTPComplex so surely he holds some patents.

I am open to suggestions. "People who frequent the website, INTPComplex.com" is too cumbersome. Maybe there should be a thread to determine the noun we should refer to ourselves as.

**Thevenin** · 03-18-2014, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by latch

Yeah he has done a bunch in his life like beat a rapist down, wrestled a bear, and caught a bullet between his teeth. I think he's the Chuck Norris of INTPComplex so surely he holds some patents.

I wouldn't quite put it that way. I never "beat a rapist down" but, once, I did stop an attempted rape and chased the rapist--he got away. I never "wrestled a bear," but, pre-pipeline, I did spend a summer working for the Institute of Arctic Biology at the U. of Alaska trapping lemmings on the tundra near the Yukon river north of Fairbanks. We carried S & W 44 magnums, which were supposed to protect us in the case of a close encounter with a grizzly bear (they're not called Ursus arctos horribilis for nothing). These so-called handguns are more accurately called cannons. As for the grizzlies, there's nothing like a steaming bear turd to get your heart fibrillating. However, in the summer, on the tundra, the worst thing is the mosquitoes, not the bears. Regarding bullets, I've always preferred shooting them to catching them. For some reason, weird things have always happened to me.

I've made my living mostly from patents (royalties, licensing, sales, etc.). It's not easy--you have to be incredibly lucky and persistent--but it can be fun as well as gratifying if your inventions help people. Patent law, however, is arcane and something that you really can't do effectively yourself (i.e., pro se) without a lot of experience. About 25 years ago, I had spent $60,000 on patent attorneys for the year and I decided to start drafting and prosecuting my own patent applications. After successfully prosecuting four applications, I gave up prosecution because it was too emotionally draining. Dealing with US patent office (USTPO) and patent examiners is often a stupid game best played by a more objective patent attorney. I still draft my patent applications but I then turn them over to attorneys for prosecution. They'll often improve my specifications and claims before filing them.

Anyway, obtaining patents can be extremely expensive and, statistically, your chances of making money are small. Also, there are a lot of misconceptions about patents, what they're worth and what they're used for. The story of the independent genius who makes a fortune on a revolutionary patent is a myth. Patents are essentially business tools. A patent is just a legal license to sue an infringer, which is a whole other subject. That said, I'd recommend finding a patent attorney with experience in the area of art of your invention (i.e., mechanical, electrical, chemical, biotech, etc.). Most attorneys can draft and prosecute in multiple areas of art. I'd look for either a solo practitioner or an attorney in a small firm because these are likely to be less expensive than those in large firms. You don't want to pay the same rates that GE, IBM, or Hitachi pay. There is no need to use an attorney in your immediate area because all business is usually conducted on the phone and with email.

The best thing you can do to control costs is to write a disclosure of your invention as if it's the specification of a patent (including drawings, if applicable). A great guide for this is Patent It Yourself, but I would only use it to educate yourself and assist your attorney, not to prosecute a patent application yourself.

Also, it's good to do a bit of patent searching before engaging an attorney. More times that I can count, I've had a great idea that 50 people had before me. You can search the USPTO and the EPO online. If you find that your invention has already been patented (i.e., it's not "novel"), you can stop there and save yourself some money. If you decide to proceed, it's likely that your attorney will do (or have a professional patent searcher do) a more comprehensive search using databases not freely available to the public.

**LordLatch** · 03-18-2014, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by Thevenin

I wouldn't quite put it that way. I never "beat a rapist down" but, once, I did stop an attempted rape and chased the rapist--he got away. I never "wrestled a bear," but, pre-pipeline, I did spend a summer working for the Institute of Arctic Biology at the U. of Alaska trapping lemmings on the tundra near the Yukon river north of Fairbanks. We carried S & W 44 magnums, which were supposed to protect us in the case of a close encounter with a grizzly bear (they're not called Ursus arctos horribilis for nothing). These so-called handguns are more accurately called cannons. As for the grizzlies, there's nothing like a steaming bear turd to get your heart fibrillating. However, in the summer, on the tundra, the worst thing is the mosquitoes, not the bears. Regarding bullets, I've always preferred shooting them to catching them. For some reason, weird things have always happened to me.

Now you're just splitting hairs to be humble. By the way, Fooled by Randomness was an enjoyable read. Imma read the Black Swan next.

Originally Posted by Thevenin

I've made my living mostly from patents (royalties, licensing, sales, etc.). It's not easy--you have to be incredibly lucky and persistent--but it can be fun as well as gratifying if your inventions help people. Patent law, however, is arcane and something that you really can't do effectively yourself (i.e., pro se) without a lot of experience. About 25 years ago, I had spent $60,000 on patent attorneys for the year and I decided to start drafting and prosecuting my own patent applications. After successfully prosecuting four applications, I gave up prosecution because it was too emotionally draining. Dealing with US patent office (USTPO) and patent examiners is often a stupid game best played by a more objective patent attorney. I still draft my patent applications but I then turn them over to attorneys for prosecution. They'll often improve my specifications and claims before filing them.

Anyway, obtaining patents can be extremely expensive and, statistically, your chances of making money are small. Also, there are a lot of misconceptions about patents, what they're worth and what they're used for. The story of the independent genius who makes a fortune on a revolutionary patent is a myth. Patents are essentially business tools. A patent is just a legal license to sue an infringer, which is a whole other subject. That said, I'd recommend finding a patent attorney with experience in the area of art of your invention (i.e., mechanical, electrical, chemical, biotech, etc.). Most attorneys can draft and prosecute in multiple areas of art. I'd look for either a solo practitioner or an attorney in a small firm because these are likely to be less expensive than those in large firms. You don't want to pay the same rates that GE, IBM, or Hitachi pay. There is no need to use an attorney in your immediate area because all business is usually conducted on the phone and with email.

The best thing you can do to control costs is to write a disclosure of your invention as if it's the specification of a patent (including drawings, if applicable). A great guide for this is Patent It Yourself, but I would only use it to educate yourself and assist your attorney, not to prosecute a patent application yourself.

Also, it's good to do a bit of patent searching before engaging an attorney. More times that I can count, I've had a great idea that 50 people had before me. You can search the USPTO and the EPO online. If you find that your invention has already been patented (i.e., it's not "novel"), you can stop there and save yourself some money. If you decide to proceed, it's likely that your attorney will do (or have a professional patent searcher do) a more comprehensive search using databases not freely available to the public.

Excellent- a thoughtful answer. Thank you. My friend just wants to make something that which is very simple in design and has gone out of manufacture. Modifying it slightly to avoid infringement. The product is obscure but clientele would be desperate should they need it.

**Polemarch** · 03-18-2014, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by latch

My friend just wants to make something that which is very simple in design and has gone out of manufacture. Modifying it slightly to avoid infringement. The product is obscure but clientele would be desperate should they need it.

I hate to break it to you latch, but I don't think these are that hard to find:

**Veronica** · 03-18-2014, 04:43 PM

I have no patents but have been working with patents for 26 years. Seven of those as a patent examiner (in Europe).

Originally Posted by latch

My friend just wants to make something that which is very simple in design and has gone out of manufacture. Modifying it slightly to avoid infringement. The product is obscure but clientele would be desperate should they need it.

If the product is simple and known (apart from minor tweaking), I very much doubt that it will be possible to get a patent at all. Or at least a patent that is anywhere near its worth in the costs necessary to get it.

To get a patent the concept needs to be NEW, ie not published or otherwise known anywhere ever. It also needs to have what is called "inventive step" which basically means that it must differ in a non trivial way from what is previously know. The difference needs to be non obvious to a "person skilled in the art".

If no one is making this at the moment and there is a real need for it, maybe he should just go for it. There are other ways to keep competitors away such as trademarks, pricing, good quality and good customer service.

**LordLatch** · 03-18-2014, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by Polemarch

I hate to break it to you latch, but I don't think these are that hard to find:

Couldn't you have dropped the double entrendre and said, "Difficult to find?"

I can't take all the innuendo! Oh and a picture like this belongs here.