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Thread: Regression.

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    Senior Member Makers!*'s Avatar
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    Regression.

    Medicine is good and all. People are okay, kinda like I'm okay and you're okay, but nothing is so spectacular as people want to imagine. We rise from the earth like flowers or boils and subside in a flicker on the universal timescale. Whether life's extended by a decade, more or less, means nothing. And all these modern contrivances, arising within the last 100 years, have done nothing but work against thousands of years of adaptation. I don't believe happiness is found on a cell phone, internet, or tv. I don't believe its found anywhere that's not fleeting, really. We were meant to fight, hunt, gather, and die in enclaves. Why resist? The moments I've felt most content have been beneath the sun, on a river fishing, or living out of a backpack. What do you think, have our advancements worked for or against our common humanity?
    Last edited by Makers!*; 03-18-2014 at 07:57 PM.

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    Scala Mountains Resonance's Avatar
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    Against, but I don't agree that people are okay and the moments I've felt most content have been heavily dependent on technology.

    Yes, technology helps to work against our natural limitations. That's not a bad thing. It allows us to adapt to a new environment simply by throwing on a parka or grabbing a pair of ice picks instead of having to go through millions of years of evolution to grow more hair and sharper claws.

    Medicine lets people live X years longer on average. Those who would have made it to elderhood anyway don't really live much longer. It's the ones who would have been snuffed out early - whether by injury, depression, or genetic anomaly - that can live more complete lives thanks to it.

    Not to mention, tech makes us better at fighting. My people have guns, yours don't. Dishonorable? Okay, but it's not about honour, it's about winning, it's about dominating the opponent.

    TV, cell phones, internet, whatever - they don't cause happiness, but they sure make it easier to find.

    If you find your happiness living like a caveman, then do it, sure. But there's not really any need to impose it on anyone else or make it into some kind of moral judgement, if that's what you're getting at.
    Last edited by Resonance; 03-18-2014 at 09:31 AM.
    Empty your mind. Be formless. Shapeless. Like water. Water can flow, or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

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    Senior Member Makers!*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonance View Post
    If you find your happiness living like a caveman, then do it, sure. But there's not really any need to impose it on anyone else or make it into some kind of moral judgement, if that's what you're getting at.
    My reference is more agrarian than caveman. Though I'm not sure where I made the moral judgement. Fear not. I don't believe youre unentitled to whatever gizmos make you happy. Not like I don't have them. Or that I'm going to find a dumpster for them anytime soon. These are hypothetical quandaries meant to challenge your conception of where the worlds headed.

    Thanks for your input.

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    libertine librarian sandwitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makers!* View Post
    I don't believe happiness is found on a cell phone, internet, or tv. I don't believe its found anywhere that's not fleeting, really. We were meant to fight, hunt, gather, fuck, and die in enclaves. Why resist? The moments I've felt most content have been beneath the sun, on a river fishing, or living out of a backpack.
    Shhhhhhh go back to working on a career and buying things. If that doesn't make you happy, you can always look forward to retirement.

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    Senior Member Makers!*'s Avatar
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    You know what, I actually think you're right, I can live like a caveman! Having already canceled my cable, and being the happier for it, it only follows that my internet should be next. If I do need to use it, then there's a library next door. Screw you digital world!

    Here's a recent internet harms from Al Jazeera...big distraction and destroying languages.

    http://america.aljazeera.com/opinion...videicann.html



    you can keep it.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwitch View Post
    Shhhhhhh go back to working on a career and buying things. If that doesn't make you happy, you can always look forward to retirement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonance View Post

    Medicine lets people live X years longer on average. Those who would have made it to elderhood anyway don't really live much longer. It's the ones who would have been snuffed out early - whether by injury, depression, or genetic anomaly - that can live more complete lives thanks to it.
    Yes. The idea of going off the grid is compelling, but then I realized I'm probably pretty screwed in any kind of apocalyptic scenario anyway, for reasons highlighted.



    I also think reliable birth control is kind of rad for anyone not interested in starting a nuclear family at any particular point in time.

    Anarcho-primitivism isn't really that compassionate of a philosophy if you think about it.

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    Senior Member Starjots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makers!* View Post
    What do you think, have our advancements worked for or against our common humanity?
    To me our common humanity is just a link in a chain stretching back to the beginning of time.



    That's biological evolution and all the simple pleasures you mention have to do with that. Is it about being a hunter gatherer or farmer? We may already be mostly unfit for hardcore hunting/gathering compared to our ancestors due to the incredible shrinking brain. I favor the idea that this is due to domestication of homo sapiens.

    Our brains are shrinking

    If it is domestication, than let's compare ourselves to dogs (modern) and their ancestors wolves (20,000 years ago). Dogs like a lot of the same things wolves do. They dream of barking and chasing and hunting, at least that's what my dog Buster seems to dream about. But Buster would make a really crappy wolf if he had to fend for himself in the wild. Even a pack of Busters would have a lot of trouble. Buster as a creature has evolved to coexist with humans.

    As dogs are symbiotic with humans by adaptation, humans have domesticated a slew of other animals - and this coincides suspiciously with the shrinking brain/domestication of humans. All of this looks to me like some sort of super-species emerging, a larger entity than humans or sheep or pigs alone, a cooperative.

    List of Domesticated Species

    Now we finally get to technology, which serves a similar role as animal domestication. We've used tools for at least two million years but they barely changed for most of that time. Early humans without stone tools can't even compete with lions and tigers and bears oh my. At some point you might say humans without tools aren't really human. It's like pulling out all the porcupine's quills and claws.

    Re: Happiness - playing at being primitive from time to time is clearly good for happiness. People do it all the time (though usually with all the modern technology they can cram in a backpack). But are there large communities of people out there who do it 24/7 without the benefit of outside civilization to support? Other than primitive tribes (which should be protected) I doubt it.

    If one person can regress it is only because all others have not, which is cool. It's one of the luxuries of living in the 21st century.

  8. #8
    a fool on a journey pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Well, without these advances you'd be sitting and thinking these thoughts, or maybe sharing them with your Montana drinking buddies rather than with a group of people who've been free to come together without the constraints of proximity.

    Also, I doubt you'd be that content living out of a backpack without the knowledge that you had an insulated, powered home to return to when the weather or bugs got really bad or you ran out of supplies or when you got too tired to do it anymore. Or the knowledge that if you were seriously injured help would be just a phone call and a few minutes away. Or knowing that your family and community weren't relying on you to bring back food or else they'd starve to death.

    I'm pretty sure people who lived hundreds and thousands of years ago(pre-agricultural or pre-industrial, whatever you pick) lived way more stressful lives than ours, or at the very least had the same amount of stress.

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    Senior Member Makers!*'s Avatar
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    You guys are good to bank crazy ideas off of but there's no substitute for drinking or fishing buddies.

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    Senior Member Makers!*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathogenetic_peripatetic View Post
    Also, I doubt you'd be that content living out of a backpack without the knowledge that you had an insulated, powered home to return to when the weather or bugs got really bad or you ran out of supplies or when you got too tired to do it anymore. Or the knowledge that if you were seriously injured help would be just a phone call and a few minutes away. Or knowing that your family and community weren't relying on you to bring back food or else they'd starve to death.
    Given more thought, I think a proper primitivist argument would circle around the idea that yea, nature is often uncomfortable, but that's why it deserves your respect. Otherwise, it will make your environment completely unlivable.

    http://america.aljazeera.com/article...sequences.html

    We've lost all respect, are detached in our greed. Me too. I'll take responsibility.

    Additionally, expectations lower. Values are relative. The thought of a fire will make you equally glad as a furnace when it's all you have to look forward too. Or in the worst conditions I've been in, sleet, snow for days on end, no option to return to a warm environment, I was immensly pleased by a change to dry socks.

    Anyway, I'm following my talk up to the degree I can afford. Internet cancelation tomorrow. It's the library from here on out for me.

    Stay away from Montana, it's where all the kooks are.
    Last edited by Makers!*; 03-19-2014 at 05:50 PM.

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