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Thread: Dario Nardi's "Neuroscience of Personality"

  1. #1

    Post Dario Nardi's "Neuroscience of Personality"

    http://www.amazon.com/Neuroscience-P.../dp/0979868475

    Recently obtained a copy and read

    would love discussion about

    FWIW, (Just to hype up/gain some interest for you guys)

    http://www.darionardi.com/Welcome.html <- Dario Nardi's personal website

    He's using an EEG to detect patterns in the brain in certain areas of the brain (rather, areas of the Neocortex)

    The book covers his work, AFAIK he's still working on doing an even larger study.

    If you are even MINUTELY interested in type, I demand that you read this book. It is a VERY short book and worth your read.

    And if you mention "mbti" and people go "pseudoscience" you just throw the book at them (lol...just kidding)

    no but seriously, read the book

    empirical results in different wave patterns for different types in different regions of the neocortex...and specifically 16 different patterns(types) with the associated regions...


    it sheds a lot of light on things



    note: he self identifies (and his brain wavez) as INTJ (but the book focuses on all 16 types)
    Last edited by TimeAsylums; 04-12-2014 at 07:50 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member skip's Avatar
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    Aw, no Kindle version.
    Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that a problem.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by skip View Post
    Aw, no Kindle version.
    beep boop bop beep lmgtfy

    http://www.radiancehouse.com/itemLG_500.htm

    third option e-book? "Or receive a personalized PDF eBook version "

  4. #4
    Senior Member skip's Avatar
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    I'll just add the paperback to my next Amazon order. Thanks, though. Looks interesting.
    Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that a problem.

  5. #5
    Outtake from a few pages of the book


    It gives a great summary and somewhat specific (not too general) for the use of functions and certain regions of the brain/neocortex.

    But what's more interesting, is although it doesn't really add anything "truly new" that would change the theory, is that it does add to the complexity.


    Across all tasks, few lab participants utilized key reasoning regions (F3, F4, P3, P4)*. Is this okay? In the USA, both traditional and modern educational methods seem to focus on developing region Fp1, which helps us explain and decide. Using Fp1 can provide a semblance of reasoning, but explaining oneself does not equal true use of logic. It appears practicing math is not fulfilling its potential to truly hone students' reasoning skills

    *F3- Deductive analyst: follow a chain of logical deductions and backtrack to correct thinking due to reasoning errors. Linearly derive solutions
    (F3: Used most by ESTPs, followed by INTPs)


    F4- Expert classifier: accurately place concepts by testing them against many categories at once to find a best-fit. Categorize and define concepts
    (F4: Used most by INTPs followed by ESTPs)


    P3- Tactical Navigator: Integrate physical space, motion, and visual clues to move skillfully through the environment. Integrate visual-kinesthetic data
    (Used most by ISTPs followed by ENTPs)


    P4- Strategic Gamer: Weigh many pros and cons, risks and uncertainties at once in order to finesse complex situations.holistically weigh numerous pros and cons of many uncertain or sikh factors or options at once to arrive at a single result
    (Used most by ENTPs followed by ISTPs)
    Sorry for focusing on T's as usual, but that's usually just what I'm interested in:
    I'm only putting in the highest used regions and not the rest for brevity


    ENTP: Fp2, F7, T3, P4
    INTP: Fp1, F3, F4, C3
    ENTJ: Fp1, F8, T3, O1
    INTJ: Fp2, T3, T6, O1

    ESTP: Fp2, F3, F4, P4
    ISTP: Fp1 , O2,P3, P4
    ESTJ: Fp1, F8, C3, O1
    ISTJ: Fp2, F8, T5, O1,
    Interesting fun fact(s)...


    The STPs were the most linearly logical. (Assuming that's the "hard" Se + Ti)

    The TPs, rather, those with Ti in dom/aux were the most capable of shutting of access to the limbic system (the seat of emotion) when attempting to think. Which type took the cake? The INTP of course.
    THINGS THAT SHOULD BE NOTED: He specifically studied COLLEGE students AGE 18-25, to NOT have to worry about DEVELOPMENT.

    If you have read ANY PersonalityJunkie profiles, it should be noted that Drenth says that people generally

    Age 0-20: MAINLY development of dominant function
    Age 20-30: you JUST begin your real struggle with the inferior!
    30+ if you are LUCKY to survive the Dom-Inf struggle, then you can move on to the real aux-Tert
    If you look at the ages of this development period (and still take it generally) and compare it to the students studied (18-25), it should be noted that it is very likely the use of aux isn't in full force.
    Continuing, specifically on Ti/Te

    Quote Originally Posted by Ti


    (dom/aux, xxTPs)

    "Reason multiple ways to objectively and accurately analyze problems."

    The Ti types show high use of four regions that afford complex logical reasoning (regions F3, F4, P3, P4). While everyone shows SOME use of these regions, every Ti type shows ongoing, strong activity in at least one of the four, with moderate activity in the others that is either ongoing or occurs during problem solving situations. Comparatively Ti types dedicate themselves to using brain resources that other people tend to neglect.

    These four regions are nestled inside the neocortex, away from direct contact with the outside world. Thus, these types can think even when there are visual, auditory, and kinesthetic distractions. This gives their decision making a "deep" or "detached" quality which fits their self-reported tendency to withdraw from the world in order to think thoroughly and clearly. The Ti types are more likely than others to show a dissociated brain state. In a dissociated state, their neocortex shuts out raw emotions in order to enjoy objectivity.

    Of all types, Ti types show the least interest in listening.

    When Ti types discuss contentious or complex ideas, such as one-on-one debates about politics or philosophy, they may quickly engage all four regions plus executive regions Fp1, Fp2. These regions alight bright red on the EEG monitor, indicating maximal attention to examining a topic from multiple angles - each angle from a different brain region - while integrating the angles into a coherent way as part of explanation or decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by Te

    dom,aux Te, xxTJ

    "Manage resources efficiently to quickly decide based on evidence."

    Te types often show efficient use of mental energy as they rely on evidence-based decision making.

    The Te types rely on four key regions - they show activity in the brain regions for hearing, seeing, recalling, and deciding.

    The Te types rely on measurable sensory information.

    For Te types, actionable comes before accurate or what-if, Thus quick efficiency may sometimes become a pitfall.

    All Te types show high activity in region F8, which handles deeply felt personal values, often expressed in a negative way.
    REAAAAAD ITTT

  6. #6
    Scala Mountains Resonance's Avatar
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    where is he getting these correspondences between eeg probe locations and function?

    the most important part of the brain for 'recalling' is the hippocampus which is too deep to get reliable EEG data on.

    bullshit detector pinging

    he also claims there is neurological validity for mbti but hasn't published any of it in a real journal despite having a phd and teaching at UCLA for 14 years

    pingpingpingpingping

    in fact the top relevant result for neuroscience + mbti in google scholar had the following passage

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.bestcareertest.net/files/Marselle_Thesis-8tm_website_showpiece_version_.pdf
    Without question, however, the greatest criticism of the MBTI is its dichotomous scoring system. That is, instead of being measured on a continuum, an individual is clustered / categorized toward one of two possible poles. For example, depending on what answer an individual chooses on the MBTI’s self-report questions, at some point, a person “crosses the line” and is labeled an extravert or introvert, etc. Typical of this criticism are comments made by Professor Dan McAdams, the current chair of the Psychology Department at Northwestern University. McAdams comments, “The MBTI’s whole notion of traits is arbitrary. What if you were trying to measure height? A test like the MBTI would say that if you’re above 5 feet 9 inches, you’re tall. If you’re below, you’re short. Now, in measuring height, no one would settle for this. If you look at all the respected academic psychology journals, you’ll hardly ever see a reference to the MBTI—and if you do, it’s dismissive. It’s just not a credible test” (Wachter, 2005, p. 26).
    Last edited by Resonance; 04-12-2014 at 10:35 PM.
    Empty your mind. Be formless. Shapeless. Like water. Water can flow, or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

  7. #7
    All these issues are addressed within the first few pages of the text...which I am too lazy to type out...so...if you aren't too lazy to watch a 1hr video:


  8. #8
    Scala Mountains Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeAsylums View Post
    All these issues are addressed within the first few pages of the text...which I am too lazy to type out...so...if you aren't too lazy to watch a 1hr video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGfhQTbcqmA
    I've seen this video. There's a lot of useful/interesting/true stuff in there, but you could strip all MBTI references out and it would be better. The talk is aimed at people who have no idea about neuroscience or EEG procedures, and also doesn't include any data or references. Does the book provide citations?

    He also explains some aspects of EEG workings incorrectly, which is yet another red flag. 'Black' doesn't mean 'no activity', it means 'activity is equal to the ground reading'.
    Empty your mind. Be formless. Shapeless. Like water. Water can flow, or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Resonance View Post
    Does the book provide citations?
    to/of?

    Edit: yes...(I think so)

    If you want them, maybe someone else who has a copy right now can share...my book is currently being borrowed, but I'll update when I get it back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Resonance View Post
    He also explains some aspects of EEG workings incorrectly, which is yet another red flag. 'Black' doesn't mean 'no activity', it means 'activity is equal to the ground reading'.
    As you mention:
    Quote Originally Posted by Resonance View Post
    The talk is aimed at people who have no idea about neuroscience or EEG procedures

  10. #10
    Scala Mountains Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeAsylums View Post
    to/of?

    Edit: yes...(I think so)

    If you want them, maybe someone else who has a copy right now can share...my book is currently being borrowed, but I'll update when I get it back.
    ok, please do. I'd especially like to see any publication at all linking neurological activity to MBTI type with honest falsificationist methods.

    I found this article:
    http://www.capt.org/research/article/JPT_vol65_1105.pdf
    on the CAPT website, but of course no actual (scalar) data are presented and the whole thing is just exploratory.

    Meanwhile you have things like this:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3049165/
    I mean, come on, CAPT. I know you're a business and everything, but you've been trying desperately to prove your legitimacy for decades now without success. Give it up already!
    Last edited by Resonance; 04-12-2014 at 11:46 PM.
    Empty your mind. Be formless. Shapeless. Like water. Water can flow, or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

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