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Thread: Javul.org - A website for setting and meeting objectives

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    Javul.org - A website for setting and meeting objectives

    .
    Want to know how you can help? See the end of my post.

    I've been involved in many volunteer web-based activities for a long time and I'm also a web-designer. The idea of the project is simple and I'll first give the example of Reddit, a popular website that many people are familiar with. The same "template" is followed by sub-reddits (for example Flying, technology) where people of similar interests come together and share interesting news, information and entertainment related content for that area. Good content and comments get upvoted for more visibility.

    The idea of this project (Javul.org) is similar. The goal is to allow people to cooperate online to set objectives and complete tasks to meet those objectives related to a specific area. Its primary objective is human wellfare. Javul is a Hungarian word that means "to improve" (wikitionary) which is what this project is about. As a small bonus, a similar German word spelled slightly differently means "A respectful, emphatic yes", the spirit needed to make this project a success and to participate in it. A name is just a name and it can be changed later if needed.

    An example of a specific area (a Unit) is "Human Rights" in Afghanistan. We can have certain Objectives related to Human rights in Afghanistan and certain Tasks that need to be completed to meet each objective.
    Here's a basic block diagram showing the concept of a Unit, its objectives and the tasks.
    You can also see a tentative logo: A globe with various components that the project is based on. Yellow: Ideas/theory; Orange: Solidification of an idea (application of the theory); Red: people; Green: Motivation for being involved in the project. These can be points awarded for completing tasks and doing other things. Money can also be involved which means people can be compensated for completing tasks if they want to if funding is available. People can score points for creating objectives and tasks and completing those tasks and can also be rewarded for any other activities that we want to encourage.

    Units, Objectives and Tasks are described in short here:
    Units: These are the areas I talked about. For example "Human Rights" in Afghanistan is a Unit. Other examples of Units can include Crime, Education, Government and so on. Units can be related to each other. Each Unit will have dedicated tools such as Forum, Fundraiser, Wiki and anything that a typical Unit would need to function to its fullest abilities.
    Objectives: Self-explanatory: Objectives that the Unit wants to achieve. An example of an objective for the 'Human Rights' unit could be "Ensure equal voting rights for men and women". Complex objectives can have sub-objectives to make things more manageable.
    Tasks: Tasks belong to a specific objective and they are the specific steps that need to completed to meet that objective. The difference between a task and a sub-objective is that tasks cannot be broken down further and they are assignable to a specific person.

    These are Google doc links for the basic pages of the project. Editable links in brackets are copies of the same links but can be edited by anyone in case anyone wants to make a point and share something. Go ahead and edit if you like (just note that the changes may be overwritten by someone making further changes).
    These can be improved further. I just wanted to show the basic concepts of what a page can look like:

    Note: I took out the following 4 or 5 links. Let me know by PM and I'll make them available again.

    Block Diagram - same as the screenshot linked above.

    Unit Home Page

    Objectives Page

    Tasks Page

    User Profile

    Examples of application:
    Here are some examples of Units that can be managed. The idea is the same for all Units: Setting objectives and completing tasks to meet specific goals:
    - Crime in South America
    - Transportation in city X - or any component relating to government. An alternate local/national government system can be managed with the eventual goal of replacing inefficient governments with dynamic, accountable and efficient systems of management. See this an actual example of technology helping the general masses get involved with governance.
    - Healthcare in a certain country
    - Pandora project, a project for transcendental perspectivists (See forum thread by wise fool) - whatever goals the Pandora project wants to accomplish can be managed. Eventually the code for Javul will most likely be open source meaning the same code can be used by Pandora or other projects as a starting point and they can modify it according to their own specific requirements for their own website
    - Javul.org - the project can have its own unit where the goal is to improve the functionality of the website for all other projects being assisted by Javul.
    - Product X by company Y - end users report issues and create objectives for existing and new products. Employees work on the most important objectives.
    This can also help organizations that provide services instead of products.
    Classification of Units can be something like: Non-profit -> Human wellfare -> Pandora Project

    The project can be used by individuals, organizations or groups of any background (national, religious/non-religious, cultural, racial and philosophical etc). The only tentative requirement is to not to do anything that goes against the Human rights charter.

    One exciting thing about the project that is people in one country can be involved in Units of another country. For example people in Canada or the US can be directly involved in Units that have objectives in Afghanistan. People in France (their healthcare system is rated #1 in the world) could help improve the Healthcare system in the US.

    I hope this is not too long. I can share more ideas but this gives a general overview. All projects are simple in the beginning but they evolve as time goes. The next steps are to get some feedback here if possible and finalize the specifications and then find web developers who can make a website that is able to start self-evolving, the mechanism that we want to duplicate in all other projects that use the website. Web developers can be found on various free lancing websites or there may be volunteers who are skilled and are willing to help. Some of the skills include PHP, SQL, HTML, Javascript, jquery, CSS (making things look nice) etc, integrating existing software like forums and wiki software, using services like Github and so on. Most likely I will do it two phases, the first phase being writing requirements and I'll need help with that too.
    I have gotten the Javul.org domain (currently blank). I have some savings and I'm planning to spend around US$2,000-3,000 to get the first draft of the website made. I will continue funding the Javul.org Unit with what I can afford to keep improving the project. I have enough web-design skills to write the requirements and do some basic work but not enough to create the functionality we need so I will need the help of others. The website will be non-commercial and will remain so. It is a big challenge so I am hoping to find people who are interested in being involved. Even if I have to do it alone I will attempt to create a system which can start self-evolving.

    I have looked online and nothing exactly like this exists although there are some close examples with similar concepts but they have a specific focus or functionality for example lego cuusoo (the best submissions for lego projects are made into actual products) or kickstarter (fund an idea or project) and so on.

    I welcome any questions, concerns, suggestions, criticism, feedback or radical ideas that suggest something better than any of the ideas presented here. If you're interested in being involved, you can share it here or pm me or write to me at javul.org AT gmail [.] com

    Looking forward to hearing from everyone including: wise fool, gps, Resonance, Polemarch and others (these people were participating on the Pandora project; gps, looking forward to hearing from you in particular).
    Everyone is welcome to provide feedback or participate in any way.
    People who have offered to help: mhc, mccrissanth (let me know if you pm'd or emailed and do not want your name mentioned here for any reason)

    How you can help:
    The most help I need with is:
    - Thinking of possible problems with this system (make any suggestions if you have any)
    - any ideas better than mine.

    If you have no feedback then I need help with (this is crucial and I really need help with this):
    - thinking of a small organization or group and seeing how they would use such a system.
    If you want to help me with that, tell me of an existing group or organization that you really care about. It would be any kind of group which is trying to achieve some goals and involved in some activism. They may or may not have an existing website. We can then start thinking about how this project would work for that group.

    ___
    Edit 1: Added small note clarifying that (as stated in its thread) the Pandora project is specifically for transcendental perspectivists.
    Edit 2: Added last line including names of people who were present in the pandora project thread.
    Edit 3: Under examples of application, further clarified the example of the reddit IAMA link
    Edit 4: Added html, javascript, jquery to the list of skills needed
    Edit 5: Added that I'll likely need help with writing requirements of the project since its going to be complex.
    Edit 6: I just started to work on some of the details and wow. This project is huge and very complex/difficult if it has to be done right. But thats the only way it will work. It is basically like wanting to create Reddit or Wikipedia when there wasnt one.
    Edit 7: Added "how you can help" at the bottom
    Edit 8: Took out some links to the draft pages. Let me know and I'll make them available again.
    Last edited by Crocobear; 02-01-2015 at 06:01 PM.

  2. #2
    Mistress Mischievous Lilith's Avatar
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    If it's under an open-sourced CMS, $2,000-3,000 is actually more than enough.

    It's actually an interesting project and would want to help set it up if I'm done with some of my priorities. I'll keep an eye on this project. There's just too much going on right now so I don't think it's best for me to commit just yet.

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    Thanks for your offer to help (time permitted as you mentioned).
    Interesting point you bring up about a CMS. I'm familiar with them only to a certain extent. I was thinking that it would need to be written from scratch because of the large amount of customization needed now and in the future. As an example Reddit and Facebook have their own code. In the beginning we only need say, 10-20 pages which are template based (or act like a CMS). These pages would be made from database queries (etc. etc. the usual).
    If a CMS implementation is easy in the beginning and allows us to do what we need, it may be the way to go. If it becomes difficult to customize later we can switch to custom code.
    Do you have any suggestions for highly customizable CMS's that I can investigate?
    Last edited by Crocobear; 04-14-2014 at 12:23 PM.

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    Any other initial thoughts from anyone else? I would love to hear any opinions. A quick FAQ about possible opinions:

    "needs a lot more work" or
    "Seems too simple, I was expecting more" --- Yes its pretty basic at this stage. A lot more work needs to be done to give it more definition but so far I like the basic concepts. I have been thinking about this and working on this on and off for many months.


    "Too complex, wont work" or:
    "wont work because of reason X" or:
    "I dont agree with something" --- I would like to hear more so we can deal with any significant issues at this stage. Share any alternate ideas or constructive criticism or any other feedback. Some ideas may be incomplete or may need to be changed. I'm open to hearing about anything that is a better idea than what I have here.

    "I understood it but ...." or:
    "Still trying to understand it" or:
    "I don't understand X... " --- ask any questions

    "Unsure about this." --- So am I (about the details) but those will come as time goes.

    "But .. what about ..... ?" --- sure things can be worked on. Nothing is perfect. We are aiming for improvement, not perfection. As we attempt to provide more definition, there will be a lot of issues that need to be resolved. It will be an on-going thing.

    "Don't we have something like this already?" --- As far as I know there are some similar ideas but they don't come close to what this can be.

    "What about other similar ideas/projects?" --- At this point Javul does not prescribe to any particular philosophy or terms of conditions (other than the preservation of Human rights). It does not limit participation in any way. It is open to people of all philosophies and to people of all non-religious or religious backgrounds. It will be designed to be simple and easy to understand and get involved with. Javul can assist other projects in being successful. The goal is to have a successful project. It doesn't matter what the name is as long as it works for people. It also doesn't hurt to have more than one project trying to achieve the same fundamental goals of improving issues in society and working on problems. If any project is successful, it will be because it works and can be widely applied.

    "I would love to be involved." - Thanks I will need all the help I can get. If possible mention the specific ways you can help in (general feedback or technology) and if you have some free time that can be used. Reply here or pm me.
    Last edited by Crocobear; 04-15-2014 at 03:02 PM.

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    As I get into the details I realize this is such a difficult project. I'm just starting to think about implementation now and have left the theory phase. I'll figure it the rest of the theory as I think about implementation.
    I have no idea what most other people think of this (other than the two people who expressed interest).

  6. #6
    Anthropos mhc's Avatar
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    i like this idea.

    you have mentioned the ideas behind the project however, i suggest that one of the first things that should be worked on is a clear mission statement and principles, to give the project a clear definition of where you want it to go, what you want it to do, and how it should be done.

    example

    Its primary objective is human wellfare
    start by listing specific examples of humanitarian welfare objectives, such as 'preservation of human life' or 'the outcomes may never justify the means'

    no matter what it is you are working on, without clear goals or guidelines it is easy for your efforts to start running off course
    Just look at the blue sky

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    hi MHC, thanks for liking and acknowledging the idea! It means a lot in addition to mccrissanth who also expressed interest. It lets me know that I'm not completely alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by mhc
    i suggest that one of the first things that should be worked on is a clear mission statement and principles, to give the project a clear definition of where you want it to go, what you want it to do, and how it should be done.
    I have a lot of things for the above (what the project wants to do) but its 16 pages so I should try to be as short as possible.

    start by listing specific examples of humanitarian welfare objectives, such as 'preservation of human life' or 'the outcomes may never justify the means'
    Human welfare can be the items in the Unit home page.
    Improving the following things:
    Agriculture | Crime | Economy | Education | Energy | Environment | Government | Health Care | Human Rights | Public Safety | Transportation
    And many others. There could be sub-categories under each of them - a huge tree of possible issues that need to be monitored.
    At this point I dont know what the tree is so I just put in some basic main level items like the above.

    So for example "reducing crime" (in a specific location) would be one human welfare objective and 150 people wanting to reduce crime in that location would work together to define what issues exist and what can be done about them.

    Exactly what should be done and how, is the hard part and its a slow process. Imagining that there should be a large shopping complex in a certain area that really needs one, is the easy part. The hard part is defining the specifics of the shopping complex, what exactly should happen and how/why etc so its a great design and really works. I am using the example of an actual activist movement to see how Objectives and Tasks would be set in a way that they would actually be done, and not just be entered into a system.
    The real example that I'm using will help me be specific and figure out the "what it will do and how".

    Ask me any other questions. It might help me become aware of something I wasn't aware of previously or I can share information that you want to know but I havent shared it yet.
    Last edited by Crocobear; 04-17-2014 at 05:07 PM.

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    This is what would help me: Thinking of a specific organization where some goals have to be met.

    Mhc, do you have any recommended organizations/movements/activism groups? We would see what they're tying to do and how this new project Javul could help.

    For example you can say you're a big fan of a group that is involved in eradicating harmful drug X.
    If you can give me something you really feel strongly about and its a real organization, we can work on that and work on scenarios. It could be animal rights, anything really as long as they have some goals they want to meet.

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    Spoiler: stub
    Code:
    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
    <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
    
    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />
    <title>Javul.org - Home Page</title>
    
    
    </head>
    
    <body>
    
    <p>&nbsp;</p>
    <p>&nbsp;</p>
    <p>&nbsp;</p>
    <h1 align="center">______</h1>
    <p align="center">&nbsp;</p>
    <p align="center">&nbsp;</p>
    <h3 align="center">&nbsp;</h3>
    </body>
    </html>


    Seems like you've got a castle in the air floating in web space and you're trying to build both a foundation and an infrastructure to shore this nascent IT up and flesh IT out.

    Your over-all theme seems like that addressed by Barbara Sher via Wishcraft , Teamworks, etc.

    As for the volunteerism you're attempting to exploit, Aubbry Jaffer's concept of voluntocracy comes to mind.

    As for the pro_forma structure revealed via http://postimg.org/image/5fer6ddsf/, it would seem that Polemarch might prefer your a_priori structure over that (missing) in Pandora Project.

    As for human rights, if a modern-day Zeno wanted to aim an arrow at an asymptotic target I can think of none better.

    Best of luck in your quixotic quest, Crocobear!

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    hi Gps! thanks for coming.
    Yea indeed, that blank page does look like the foundation of some kind for a building.
    I looked at the introduction and chapter 9 of the book on Barbara's website to see what it was about. Yea thats one way of looking at it: self-growth for the community.

    As for the pro_forma structure revealed via http://postimg.org/image/5fer6ddsf/, it would seem that Polemarch might prefer your a_priori structure over that (missing) in Pandora Project.
    Thats encouraging. My project is based on simple concepts but yes it is true that I have a pretty defined concept of the project and it only gets better (but scarier*) defined as I think about it further. Every additional idea I get only adds to the existing concepts I have and strengthens the need for the project in my mind.
    (*: scarier because I realize how difficult it is; the devil is in the details)

    Also I want to make a guess that possibly Pandora is what Javul (project in this thread) would become say maybe after 100 years of being deployed and after it evolves so maybe we were thinking of the same thing, its just that Wise fool was looking at how things would look like much later on.
    In the current environment we have to make a very basic start and build up from where we are right now. For example he said (or meant to say) the people who are transcendental perceptivists would be the leaders of the project.
    In our terms, another way of saying that can be: people who understand other's perspectives will be the ones who will be most successful in a project like this.
    In any case if Pandora is different, Javul or a basic "set and meet objectives" mechanism can be used by Pandora to convert from a concept to a reality.


    As for human rights, if a modern-day Zeno wanted to aim an arrow at an asymptotic target I can think of none better.
    Sorry I didnt understand that inspite of looking up that term (Zeno's arrow). Help!


    Best of luck in your quixotic quest, Crocobear!
    Thanks I'll need it. I have had some successes in thinking up of volunteer-based projects and actually implementing them. I'm hoping I can make this project work too. But yes this one is very daunting and the most important of any task I've worked on.
    I will start small. I want to model the whole thing on some real activism based organizations and seeing how such a project can be used for their goals. If I can think up of something those small organizations can use, I know all other groups can benefit from and use the same model or tools. Starting small and modeling it for a small activist group helps it look less scary.
    Is there any kind of activism you are passionate about, or are involved in? For example an existing group, "association for ...XYZ", an organization or group which has some goals its trying to achieve.

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